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Powder blue tang lost
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Babe in the woods
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Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Location: Australia

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)3:09    Post subject: Powder blue tang lost Reply with quote

I lost a fish today and I'm not sure why. All the test kits said the water was on the money but yet a loss.
I am new to marine Aquariums but have had a long experiance with non salinated tanks, This was the next step in a hobby.
I have a 160L three foot tank, small I'm sure for a marine tank, but compensated with a large canister filter 1000L pH and on advise from my Aquarium guy under gravel filter with 100mm of sand, with power heads pumping 800L pH each. 2600L pH filtration seemed OK to me.
Enter 10Kg of live rock, two weeks later after much testing 1 sailfin tang and 1 powder blue, some turf scraps but nothing out of left field.
Feeling OK with it all I introduced a Coral beauty, more scraping, Stress , white spot ,Treatment, not eating, and death.
The two remaining fish look good but.
Any help would be appreciated
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Mike
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire. England. UK

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)3:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't really know much on the salt water stuff, not got there myself as yet.

I thought the UGF's were frowned upon since the bacteria that reduce the Nitrates like to have still stable water. Anyways, I'm guessing.

I'll give you this link, It is an excellent reef site, and will be able to answer your questions.

http://www.ultimatereef.net

Although at the moment 09:50GMT 29/11/03 is appears offline.
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MotoHead
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)10:43    Post subject: marine Reply with quote

well first off,you need to get rid of the undergravel filter.this may be good for fresh water,but not salt.holds back crucial bacteria and produces entirely too much oxygen.also do not know how to figure out liters to gallons,but you should have 1 lb to a lb and a half per gallon of live rock.also seems to me like you did not let your tank cycle at all,two weeks is definately not long enough.usually takes up to two months to cycle completely.if you lose your other fish this will be the reason why.best bet is to get some cheap fish for the cycle,such as damsels.very hearty and most likely make it to start your cycle.also check out this other forum,much livelier there.quick answers usually.

http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/forum.jsp?forum=2&start=0
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GrendelPrime76
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Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: upstate ny

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)13:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree with you moto on buying "cheap fish" to cycle a tank its cruel to put the fish through the cycle and once the tank is cycled the damsels will become a terror to anything you put in the tank once they get established as most if not all are highly territorial, the best bet and the most effective way in my opinion is to use live rock and 1 coctail shrimp per 50gal to cycle, let the shrimp rot in the tank to get the cycle going and track the progress with your test kits, powder blues are 1 of the hardest tangs to keep as they need a well established tank with excilent water quality to thrive same with pygmy angels they need a tank thats been up and running for at least 6 months before you can add any to the tank, in your post you say your tank is only 3ft which is to small for any tang to keep which to me says its a 35gal, filters won't compensate for the room tangs need to stay healthy and minimize territorial aggresion, your best bet would be to return the fish you have and let your tank cycle the right way beforee you even think of stocking it with any fish, and I agree with moto on the under gravel rip it up and toss it, in a 35gal I would use about 40lbs of live rock with about a 4 inch sand bed and a few power heads for good water movement, the 2 tangs you have need at least a 75gal or larger alone, wrong fish for a small tank especialy when its not even cycled, good luck and keep us posted
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MotoHead
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)14:06    Post subject: fishie fishie Reply with quote

grendel you are probably right about no fish in cycle.that is the way I did mine and it worked out great.both damsels lived although I do not know what they went thru.they were cheap fish tho,bout 3 bucks apiece,they did make it and I returned them when tank was done.was like a 6 dollar rental fee.lol.anyway people will do it the way they want I guess.
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GrendelPrime76
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Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Location: upstate ny

PostPosted: 2003.11.29(Sat)17:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

truth to tell some 14yrs ago when I got into marine tanks I also cycled with damsels but time other posts and research made me realize that there is more humane ways to cycle, and trying to catch damsels without pulling everything out of the tank is next to impossable..lol
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2003.12.01(Mon)8:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishless cycling is the best way to go. Using damsels used to be the "old" way of doing things. But even though the fish may live most do die. The ones that make it can actually have permanant respirtaory problems and or gill damage.

I would definitly say get rid of the ug filter they become major nitrate factories. The ugf does not produce oxygen. This is one reason longer shorter tanks are recommended over taller deeper ones because the more surface area you have the more oxgen transfer you end up with and this is what you want. Also using sand with a ugf actually defeats the purpose.

babe in the woods

You need to slow down and stop putting inhabitants in the tank. Your tank is only 2 weeks old with new lr in it. Your tank needs to completely cycle and a salt tank can take up to a month or more to cyle. You should not add anything to the tank unless your ammonia and nitrites are at a complete 0 both of these are extremely toxic to critters. The cycle of a salt tank is probaly 5 times more toxic then the cycle of a fresh water tank.

As for your fish you picked 2 of the most difficult species of tangs to start off with, neither one is actually recommended for a beginner. Also its best to add tangs and angels of anykind at a minimum of 6 months or more. It can take a sw tank anywhere from 6 months to a year to be considered fully mature. Most species if you research are labeld in difficulty and the amount of time before introducing to a tank. Some species of fish are actually reccomended not to be added any less than a year. You can find list containing beginner, moderate, difficult, expert only. The conversion of 160 liters is about 42.26 gallons this is actually to small of a tank for one tang. There are a few species that fit well in a 55 gallon but most need at least a 75 gallon tank and thats just for one tang.

The sailfin tang can get over a foot and is actually reccomended for a 125 gallon tank http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=378

the powder blue http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=366



There are some things to look at when and before buying fish
1) full adult size and minimum tank reccomendation
2) compatability
3) level of care
4) some fish need special needs or special diets
5) aggressiveness

What are all the parameters your testing for? The main and most important ones are ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, pH, and alkalinity.

I have some good beginner sites that I reccomend for people to do reading on I will list them

seven cardinal sins of reef keeping
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/liverocksetup/a/aa081501.htm

reef keeping 101
http://www.reefcorner.com/reef%20keeping_101.htm

live rock faq
http://sps.reefkeepers.org/LiveRockFAQ.htm

sand bed faq
http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html

saltwater cycling
http://www.epetpals.com/cycle.htm

Hope this helps you out
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