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Considering marines, some input please?..........(long post)
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SiMi_2k3
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire, UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.12(Tue)12:05    Post subject: Considering marines, some input please?..........(long post) Reply with quote

I have a 90L tank (dimensions: 30"L*15"H*12"D) and it has been laying dormant for quite sometime now. I, quite a while back, considered setting it up as a tropical reef system, but never had the funds to do this, now I'm into some major moolar and think its about time I made my dream come true!

My idea is to set up a reef system (corals, fish, inverts etc.) in the tank but have next to no idea what I need or don't need and simply must have or what I should avoid like the plague. I've kept tropical freshwater tanks (and still do) for a few years now, all of them in reaitively the same sized tanks, and as a result of this have some pretty sturdy knowledge of water chemistry and so on (e.g cycle the tank for minimum 6 weeks before adding live stock, keep an eye on pH, Nitrates and Nitrites etc.). Also I've been left with a couple accessories from these tanks that havent been used in some time, an Ehiem 'Ecco 2233' cannister filter for one, and a single light ballast with 24" NO flouro light. now I know I'll need some serious lighting for the Corals, something like a total Wattage of 117Watts (5.1W/Gal) for my sized tank I read somewhere, and to achieve this I plan to get a 2nd dual bulb ballast for an actinic blue and a 10,000K strip light, and have the NO flouro workong on one of my other tanks, where I currently have 2x20W compact flouros that arent working so great. Is there anything else I missed on the lighting side??

As for filtration, I've heard that the way to go with a reef is a UGF powerd with a powerhead, or more, and have a 2"-3" layer of aragonite on top with a layer of live sand 1-1/2" thick on tope of that.....would this render my Ehiem 'Ecco 2233' useless, or could I still use it? I know I need live rock, but how much and what type is best? I read in a few places that Fijian 'cured' live rock is best, but most expensive....opinions please?

Corals, inverts and marine life, what types?? I have already researched this a tiny bit and have a basic idea of what I want, and this consists of Polyps, Mushrooms and 'feather duster worms' for coral life, Clowns firefish gobie(s) and mandarinfish as the fish life, and shimps, a hermit crab or two and turbo snails for inverts. What numbers/types of the above would you suggest bearing in mind that my tank is about 90L.

well that will do for now, if I have missed anything or you can add anything please contact me here, or by email, all information is welcomed and much appreciated.

Thank you so much for your time and I hope I get a few, if any responses from here Smile
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Mike
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire. England. UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.12(Tue)13:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Simi, long time-no sea.

Well I don't keep marines so can't advise 100%, but I don't believe that what you are thinking is the way to go.

90 litres is not very large at all for a salt tank. I say salt, cause you can keep marines, or go reef. Both systems are completely different in the kinds of equipment required, and cost.

It is said, to think of the cost and then quadruple it for reefs.

Anyways. sumps usually are the size that you requires for the main tank, and I don't think that UGf's are the way to go.

anyway go to this site and ask loads of questions and then ask more befoe deciding which route you want to take.

www.ultimatereef.net/forums/
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SiMi_2k3
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire, UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.14(Thu)13:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mike Smile yep, its been a while....work has almost taken over my life right now, as has my personal life....I rarely get time for leisure like my hobbies anymore, but I scrape by.

neways, Went into a marine specialist today called Fantasea and had a lenghty 2hr chat with them regarding all my options. They (and most books I'm reading) seemed to think that 30Gal+ would be better and the 20Gal could be used as a sump with a dsb for bio-filtration, with the Eheim as a mechanical pre-filter feeding the sump. With this in mind I'm looking at making a 33gal tank with dimensions of 40"long*12"wide*20"deep (size restriction was slightly more than thought!!), I've scratch built before with my two existing tanks and have a local glass stockist (Pilkington Glass of all people!!) and plenty of silicone acetate for it, only thought is would the 33Gal sit comfortably in an upstairs room as it will be in my bedroom, or would it simply be too heavy??

As for the protein skimmer I have seen one of these at
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Mike
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire. England. UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.14(Thu)15:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quickie since I havnt got much time.

a 12" might not be deep enough really, I read that you need a 18" depth to get the sense of depth in a marine aquarium.

Just get a snmall piece of live rock, you shouldn't need much and keep stock very low, until more dead rock gets populated with the new live rock.

You will need lots of current in a salt water tank. I don't think a 2213 will cut it really.

Most people use 1060 pumps as a return, and they are around 1600 lph, as a guide and a couple of powerhead up the water column.

Hve a good read around the website I gave you, and ask questions.

The buy/sell page is very usefull also.

Just a quick point. Get the best protein skimmer you can afford, This is the life and soul of marines, especially reefs to keep proteins out.


Make sure the piliknton glass is not safety glass, could shatter into millions of pieces!

Are you going Reef or marine ?
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SiMi_2k3
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire, UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.14(Thu)16:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a 12" might not be deep enough really, I read that you need a 18" depth to get the sense of depth in a marine aquarium.


Umm, I'm going to make it 20" DEEP (top to bottom), and it will be 12" front to back.

Quote:
Just get a small piece of live rock, you shouldn't need much and keep stock very low, until more dead rock gets populated with the new live rock.


I was going to do a 50/50 mix of L/R and base rock since I believed that the 10KG of each would help with filtration....are you suggesting a 75% base rock, 25% live rock (thats 15KG Base, 5KG Live)??

Quote:
You will need lots of current in a salt water tank. I don't think a 2213 will cut it really.

Most people use 1060 pumps as a return, and they are around 1600 lph, as a guide and a couple of powerhead up the water column.


I'm going to get a couple powerheads for the current side of things, the eheim will be for removing water from the tank and placing it into the 20gal that will become the sump...I thought I stated this before?

Quote:
Have a good read around the website I gave you, and ask questions

The buy/sell page is very usefull also.

I'm already looking Smile and I'm scouring Ebay.co.uk also!!

Quote:
Just a quick point. Get the best protein skimmer you can afford, This is the life and soul of marines, especially reefs to keep proteins out.


Make sure the piliknton glass is not safety glass, could shatter into millions of pieces!

Are you going Reef or marine ?


The protein skimmer is a second hand demo model cleaned up for sale from Fantasea, would cost
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2003.08.20(Wed)16:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would be able to use the Ehime filter lots of people use them for salt tanks. As far as your NO lighting its fine if you stick with a FO tank for a while lighting isnt as important if you just have fish but when you get into the corals. If you run the power compact lighting with a smaller tank you are talking about you could go with low light to mid grade lighting corals, which actually covers quite a bit. You mentioned polyps and mushrooms they will do well in this type of lighting.

As far as the fish the clowns and firefish would work but the mandarines need actually a pretty good size tank with lots of lr. In a tank a mandarine can wipe out a pod population in no time. There are some that will eat frozen foods but not many. Do not go with an ugf for a reef and also with the sand it will suck the sand down in defeating the purpose. Just go with a sb of about 3" on the bottom and no UGF. You can buy dry aragonite sand and seed it with a pound or 2 of live sand. The same thing with the live rock use base rock and use a couple lbs of live rock to seed it. It wil take some time to all become live but it will. For shrimps cleaner , fire (blood), and peppermint shrimp are IMO the most reef compatible and great if you pair them up. Just try a couple turbo snails. One problem is people put tons of snails in the tank and they eat up the food then they compete for it and end up starving to death so just buy a couple for your tank and see how it goes. Just go with maby one or 2 hermits keep in mind they will kill some snails for there shells or maby try to provide shells for them.

Your question about the live rock a general rule is 1 pound per gallon. Fiji is the most common but not the most expensive. There are actually several types of lr but fiji is the most pourous and the lightest.
Heres a page with some of the types of lr you can get.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?siteid=24&pCatId=393

As far as the sump I can't really give you fist hand information on a sump because I never ran with one. But most people that have them like running with them. Protein skimmers there are so many out there, it depends on your price range you can go to.

Protein skimmer info and reviews

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?siteid=24&pCatId=393

For powerheads I've found the mini and maxi jets and the hagen brand seem to hold up the best. I've tried different types and others have failed fairly quickly. I would say maby 2 of the 402s or 2 or 3 of the mini jets would work well. As far as weight of the tank for being up stairs it shouldnt be to bad. It might be a good idea if you can locate support boards and set your tank over them. In some old houses you can see them, in newer houses where you might not see them you can use a stud finder. Its a little tool you can probably borrow one if you know someone that builds things or run to a hardware store they sell them.

With it being a 40 gallon I would go with no more than the clowns and firefish. Maby one other small one. You shouldnt overstock a salt tank. Saltwater actually contains less oxygen than freshwater therefore you can't put as many fish in as you would a saltwater tank. Inverts do not affect the bioload that much like fish do. A good rule is 1" per 5 gallon some thats been in the hobby a while will go 1" per 3 gallon.

One good book is The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paletta is a good beginner book and easy to understand. Also Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman both is one of the best coral books.

Here are some good beginner web sites to check out

Nitrogen Cycle
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

Reef keeping 101
http://www.reefcorner.com/reef%20keeping_101.htm

Live rock faq
http://sps.reefkeepers.org/LiveRockFAQ.htm

Sand bed faq
http://www.reefkeepers.org/faq/cache/33.html
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SiMi_2k3
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Derbyshire, UK

PostPosted: 2003.08.21(Thu)10:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

karla, wow theres some heavy info there!!

thank you so much for your reply, I found it extremely helpful thanks Smile

You say that the Mandarin fish will need a fairly sized tank, oh well, not to worry. How about Watchman gobies? would two or three of these critters fit in OK? Also, as regards fire fish, how many of these would be OK with a pair of Percula clowns?? And would it be OK to mix the species, e.g. an orange firefish and a purple one, or would they need to be of the same species, e.g. 2 orange/two purple firefish??

You also mentioned lighting, I was going to use one of my existing 30W ballasts and also purchase a dual 40W ballast by Arcadia and put a 36" hagen 'Power-Glo', and a 36" 10,000K on the other, and on the single ballast place a 36" Actinic Blue Flouro. that would remain on 24hrs.

As regards using the Eheim as the supply OR return to the tank from the sump, I didn't think about what would happen during a power outage. Should one occur, the Eheim would cause a syphon of the tank into the sump, causing a somewhat impromtu water change, resulting in a swimming pool in my bedroom, and dead fishes everywhere. For this reason I have decided to stick with the sump, and instead get a couple of pumps equal to the output of the one being used on the skimmer.

also, I already have the book by Mike Paletta and I totally agree, its VERY VERY informative and easy to understand. Thanks so much for your replay and I look forward to any more information you can supply.
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2003.09.07(Sun)5:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watchman gobies do well as a single or a pair. With clowns and firefish I wouldnt go with more than 2 of each. A pair works great but when you get into the odd numbers of these species they will kill each other off until you have a pair anyway. Also stick with the same species 2 of the same clowns and or firefish. Different species put together don't really mix.
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SiMi_2k3
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PostPosted: 2003.09.08(Mon)4:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlas wrote:
Watchman gobies do well as a single or a pair. With clowns and firefish I wouldnt go with more than 2 of each. A pair works great but when you get into the odd numbers of these species they will kill each other off until you have a pair anyway. Also stick with the same species 2 of the same clowns and or firefish. Different species put together don't really mix.


when you say 'stick with the same species 2 of the same clowns and or firefish' do you mean ONLY 2 clowns OR 2 Firefish OR 2 Watchman Gobies, or could there be ALL of them in there 2 Clowns, 2 Firefish AND the 2 Watchman Gobies.

thanks in advance.
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karlas
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PostPosted: 2003.09.08(Mon)5:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a 30 gall go with maby 3 or 4 small fish. All 3 species are compatable together. I would say pick 2 of the species and get pairs or a pair and a single, or 1 of each. What I meant was clowns stick with the same type 2 false percs, or 2 true percs for example. Same for the firefish stick with reds or purples but not both.
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