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10g Marine tank ?'s
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kevhart
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Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: 2003.05.08(Thu)17:00    Post subject: 10g Marine tank ?'s Reply with quote

I have a spare 10g tank and want to setup a small reef tank with small a small clown species and a anemone. Never set up a marine tank yet, I have done some research, but need some good advice to get started.

I have numerous freshwater setups, so I do have some aquaria experience. I figured a small tank would be a good idea to get started in the marine fish area. What kind of equipment do I need, water specs, what are differences between different marine tanks.....lots of starter info would be great, or good links

thanks
Kevin
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PostPosted: 2003.05.08(Thu)18:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

GRRRR!!@!!!
WTF???

Is there a time limit on posting or something??
How come I keep getting all these da^%$^ "Invalid session" errors whenever I make a long post?

Sorry, Kevin, I had all the answers for you, but I'm too pissed off to type it all over again.
Your plan will fail miserably.
This website has some information you may find useful, and there are of course always BOOKS!!!
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SoS
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Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: 2003.05.08(Thu)21:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping an anenome alive is one of the hardest things a reefer does. They need pretty constant attention to water parameters.

A 10 gallon with 2 inches of live sand and about several pounds of live rock would be good. NO lighting and a HOB power filter(no biowheel) .

After it cycles keep a close eye on your parameters to see if how long you can go without a water change. Using RO/DI water helps. Every other week would probably be good.

Inhabitants:

Mated pair of firefish or percula clowns something like that. Percula are the only clowns I recommend for a 10 gallon the rest just get too big.
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The Old Salt
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Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2003.05.08(Thu)23:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Percs get 4 inches plus.

They won't work either. In fact I doubt that any clowns can be kept long term in a 10 gallon tank, and an anemone sure can't.
As for the clownfish/anemone relationship, kevin, you should know that clowns are very specific about which anemones they'll use. For the most part, clown anemones won't even FIT into a tiny 10 gallon tank, let alone survive in one.

I hope you rethink this. If you had done even more research, you'd already know why you're about to make a huge mistake.
Your attitude is all wrong. A spare ten gallon tank is NOT the one to make into your first marine aquarium. It would scarcely serve as your quarantine tank. You are under the mistaken impression that a small tank would somehow be easier to maintain than a big one, but the opposite is true.
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Irons
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Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: 2003.05.12(Mon)12:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Salt,

I'll start off with this statement:
I know very little about salt tanks. I haven't done any research.

Here's the question:
Will a 10Gal tank hold enough of an eco-system for inhabited live rock and 1-2 small inverts?

I'm thinking of setting up something small. Probably with no fish. Needed research will be done if this is fesible.

Wife is already irrated that I'm looking to replacing the 30G cichlid tank with a 75. The deal is if I do replace I have to take the 30 down. So, if I want salt I have to get rid of cichlids or go small...

*sigh*
<----- is an aquarium addict.
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Irons.
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The Old Salt
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Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2003.05.12(Mon)23:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a very disturbing trend growing now concerning "nano-reefs," which are tiny little reef tanks.
What you should bear in mind is that many Nano's are made purely for showing off, and they're a lot more hassle than their owners like to admit.

With no fish, or maybe something like a single pair of Neon Gobies, a nano reef is about as easy to handle as a big one.
Clownfish? Forget it.

Here's how I would do it if I were a beginner:

-- I'd use the undergravel filter plate as a plenum.
-- I'd use five pounds of live sand ( GOOD live sand ) mixed with regular fine grade aragonite sand to a depth of two inches.
-- I'd add 8-15 lbs of good, raw, fresh atlantic live rock. May I recommend Tampa Bay Saltwater? Their rock is top-shelf, and ususally requires no curing. The best part about atlantic rock is the lack of all those annoying planarians which plague pacific rock, and Tampa Bay's rock already has small corals on it.
-- Okay, lighting.
This is one reason tiny tanks are difficult. If you have enough light to maintain the corals and such, you run the risk of overheating.
I'd use power compact lighting and leave the tank's lid off for ventilation. Keep a gallon jug of distilled water handy to make up for evaporation.

Finally I'd add some critters like a few tiny clean-up hermits and snails. Next would come the fishes. I'd probably go with a pair or two of Neon Gobies or something similarly small.

Filtration? Ah, here's another problem. I suppose a Skilter 250 would serve okay. The problem with a tank this small is that a sufficient filter/skimmer would create a lot of water current in the tank, and likely too much. It would take a lot of careful layout to get everything just right. The tank is also too small to count on the sand bed for denitrification.
Personally, I'd add an external macroalgae filter/refugium, but the plumbing would be a royal pain. it would be worth it, though. Those things are fantastic.


Now, as for your original question of whether a 10 gallon tank would house an ecosystem suitable for maintaing all the inverts, I'd have to say "no way" ( UNLESS of course you used that 30 gallon tank as the refugium. )
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SoS
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Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: 2003.05.13(Tue)0:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Old Salt wrote:
There is a very disturbing trend growing now concerning "nano-reefs," which are tiny little reef tanks.
What you should bear in mind is that many Nano's are made purely for showing off, and they're a lot more hassle than their owners like to admit.


Well Put Very Happy

I had a 10 gallon Nano running for a few months and it was more work than keeping my 55 gallon reef going.
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Irons
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Joined: 27 Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: 2003.05.13(Tue)7:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank-you very much for you thoughts and options. I will scratch that idea. I have no intention of torturing myself and sea creatures. Oh, well. After the second 75 setup and running maybe I'll start working her over for the 30 to be a salt tank. I know she really like those bright all blues. Maybe I'll design a tank around them.
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helenjc
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Joined: 12 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2003.05.13(Tue)13:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate to be a dissenting opinion, especially since it seems to me Old Salt has probably had a lot more experience in this field than myself, but I think it would be possible to keep a ten gallon tank, although I know in this hobby, the larger the better. If you have the opportunity, go larger. The added water will add to stability, as well as the physical space that is necessary for fish to thrive. Not to mention, in this addicting hobby, upgrades are always in the near future. And doing it right the first time is always best. Remember with each upgrade in tank size, you will have to upgrade pretty much all your equipment, so cost is a huge issue. You really won't save all that much money by going smaller. Especially for a beginner without any experience, larger tanks leave more room for error.

With all that said, a smaller tank is possible, if you are willing to be diligent in your maintenance and if you put in the necessary research before starting. You could go with one very small fish, maybe an ocellaris instead of a percula. I believe they tend to stay a bit smaller. Also, if you plan to go with an anemone, the species is quite important, as not all anemones are suitable hosts for clownfish. A bubble tip may be suitable for A. ocellaris. Although I may be mistaken, from personal experience, the bta that I own does not get very large, and seems to split before outgrowing the tank. I guess you would be taking a bit of a risk figuring out which exact BTA would be suitable. Most anemones need high lighting, and for nanos, PC's tend to work well. Also, anemones need a matured tank to surivive. Most recommend at least six months. So this won't be a quick set up and done job. Not to mention the time that it will take for the tank to cycle, before adding anything living in your tank.

Although having a 10 gallon tank is not impossible, as many others have said, it is not advisable, especially for the beginner. Hopefully you can judge for yourself if you are willing to put in the time necessary to research and maintain such a small tank. My guess is after reading all these, you'll probably find that this is not really the best way to go.

OK, guess I better get ready for the flames.
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The Old Salt
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Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2003.05.13(Tue)14:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

No flame from me. You DID warn that it would be a much bigger hassle, and you didn't exactly encourage anyone to try it.

Still, NO clownfish. Clowns live in pairs, and a ten gallon tank cannot support a pair. You wouldn't want to stuffed into a closet all ALONE for the rest of your life, would you?

Anemones are very poor choices for nanoreefs, no matter what the size. They're problematic enough in a big tank, and there's no point in compounding your worries.

Avoiding anemones & clowns, however, will go a long way toward success with a nanoreef.
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