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Bio-Load question
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sblack82
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Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)10:00    Post subject: Bio-Load question Reply with quote

First off, let me say.......Nice boards!!! I've been away from the saltwater Aquarium hobby for a few years, but plan on gettting back into things with a larger tank and I had a question about my prospective bio-load.

I haven't bought anything yet as I understand that I have to re-research and prepare myself first......

This is the setup:

-120 gallon tank (48" x 24" surface area)

-CPR CR 3000 wet/dry filter (rated up to 440 gallons)

-AquaC EV240 Protein Skimmer with Mag Drive 24 Pump (2400 gph) - in Sump

-Return Pump is Quiet One 4000HH pump (980 gph)

-probably 100 lbs of live rock, and appropriate amount of arag live sand

-maybe a UV sterilizer

These are the fish I've been eyeballing:

- Black Volitans Lionfish
-Antennata Lionfish
-Porcupine Puffer Fish
-Maculosus Angel
-Purple Tang
-Sunset Wrasse

If anything I could move to a 150 gallon tank (60" x 24" surface area) and get a bigger return pump (probably the Quiet One 5000 - 1300 gph)

Any suggestions are more than welcome.....
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KDodds
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Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Location: Suffern, NY

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)12:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

With appropriate circulation (10x tank volume per hour or better), and Live Rock and Live Sand, the wet/dry will become more of a liability than an asset. It's not needed and can become a nutrient sink. On the fish, I would be a little concerend about mixing a Puffer and Large Angel with Lions.
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sblack82
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Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)13:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a puffer with a black volitans lion in my last tank and didn't have any problems....I know that they are prone to pick at the lion fins....but I had plenty of hiding space and they were well fed ( I had very high circulation because my mother loved to come over and do a bit of extra feeding)......I'm not really worried about that as much as I am overloading the system and tank with fish.....and I've never heard of a wet/dry being detrimental......especially with a tank full high waste producing fish........

I've actually thought of upgrading the return pump to a Mag Drive 24 like the protein skimmer..... but I'm not sure if 2400 gph would be too much for a non-reef tank.....It would be 20 x the tank volume per hour on the 120 gallon and like 16x the tank volume on the 150 gallon. Again, any suggestions and education is more than appreciated.
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KDodds
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Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Location: Suffern, NY

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)14:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wet/dry media has a tendency to trap detritus and NOT be capable of processing nitrAte, which can lead to nutrient accumulation that can fuel algal blooms. A DSB or SSB and Live Rock should be more than enough to handle the bio-load of any appropriately stocked tank. The advantage to this natrual approach is that ammonia and nitrIte are processed down to nitrAte in proximity to anaerobic bacteria which can than process the nitrAte into free nitrogen. Also, phosphate processing/binding seems also to be accomplished by DSB systems, most likely by binding the phosphate into living organisms. An algal refugium, IMO, would do a lot more towards stabilizing things than any wet/dry ever could.

As to circulation, most marine species can withstand a lot more total circulation than it would ever be possible to provide. However, there's a difference between total circulation and point source velocities. Generally, you want to stay around 4 fps, so if using a 2000gph pump, you're going to want to split it at least 4 times, depending on the diameter of the return.
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sblack82
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Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)14:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kdodds..... that seems to make some sense.....but please clarify.....DSB??? SSB??? what are these abbreviations supposed to mean
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KDodds
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PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)20:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deep Sand Bed and Shallow Sand Bed, respectively. Things have probably changed quite a bit since you kept your last tank. Hobbyist literature really hasn't caught up yet, but the widespread use of DSBs has been popular for at least a decade and gains popularity every day. Not as a fad, mind you, but as a very viable and efficient alternative. I would suggest delving a little into Reef Central and Dr. Ron's Forum there (see the DSB links before asking questions) if you're at all interested.
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sblack82
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Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)12:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhh....I got you.......yeah, my last tank was back before pwer compact lighting had even hit the market......and from what I remember most literature I could find on the topic said to avoid a layer of substrate beyond 2 solid inches or so all over because an excessively deep layer of substrate could lead to being a huge trap for organic waste and ammonia...but yeah, things have changed quiet a bit, and I'll take a peek over at reefcentral......thanks again
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KDodds
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PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)14:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old thinking based in myth. You'll see after you read up on DSBs a bit. Don't be afraid to ask Dr. Ron questions, but make sure you've read all of the literature first. Wink
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sblack82
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PostPosted: 2005.05.06(Fri)7:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah....I guessed that much from some of the replies that other people have gotten
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sblack82
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PostPosted: 2005.05.13(Fri)9:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, done some reading and a refugium it is. I've also decided to spend a little more money so I won't have to do it later. Although it is going to slow down the process a bit, I'm sure it will be worth it - It will probably take another 9 months before I have everything I need and start this thing up. (Wedding + Moving = serious cash shortage)the tank is going to be a 150 gallon FOWLR system. THe overflow will probably be around 2400gph to the baffled sump and refugium below the tank which means I will be turning over the tank 16 times an hour (Which should be enough) I'll probably go with a 6" DSB and extra live Rock as well as the AquaC EV 400 skimmer in the sump. My return pump is still going to be the sequence pump.

So If going in as Juvenilles, but not upgrading the tank upon maturity, do you think I can get away with the following fish:

1 x Black Volitans Lionfish
1x Maculosus Angel
1x Purple Tang
1x Porcupine Puffer
1x Klunzinger's Wrasse

I'm pretty sure that might max out my tank size wise and they all produce a lot of waste. Oh, before I forget, joke of the day - I went to a local and very famous fish store asking about the refugium and they gave some good advise and even showed me one that they had setup. However, they had pumping Xenia in their refugium and it was really well off, which I commented about. As the guy and I are talking he asked me about the system I am working on setting up so I told him about it including the fish I wanted to do - and this moron told me that If I wanted I could keep some Xenia in the main tank I plan??!?!!! Embarassed Please tell me that there is no truth to this as I'm sure the puffer will feast on the Xenia, and probably the wrasse too........
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