Aquarium & Tropical Fish Site

This repository is for research only. New discussions take place in our current Tropical Fish Forum.

Archivarium 2004
Repository of our 2003/2004 Topics
 
  HelpHelp   Search BoardSearch Board   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Check your private messagesCheck your private messages   Log inLog in   RegisterRegister 
Hardy Fish?
 Forum Index > Saltwater Basics  Search Board
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Psyfalcon
Regulars


Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: 2005.04.18(Mon)22:31    Post subject: Hardy Fish? Reply with quote

Are any salt water fish hardy enough to do the college tank circuit? It would need to go 1 week at a time without feedings, and would have to travel 1200 mi over the school year. There, home for christmas, back in january, and home in may. I'm getting pretty good at moving my freshwater tank, but the fragile nature of salt water fish is too much? I could, if necessary, take all my water with me though. 1- 2 fish? (I don't think I could stand an all invert tank, but hermit crabs are cool!)

Tank would be a 10 gal, probably loaded with live rock, and any other necessay equipment. No corals and such of course. And yes, I realize this is a pretty stupid idea, first salt tank at 10 gallons, plus moving it. So I'm not set on it, just seeing if its a possible option.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
KDodds
Advisors


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Location: Suffern, NY

PostPosted: 2005.04.18(Mon)22:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible, although not recommendable. In a 10 gallon, however, I wouldn't do more than one fish under the circumstances. A Blue Devil should do fine, and is about as hardy as they come.
_________________
Kieron Dodds
Inside Aquatics
www.insideaquatics.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
SLACkra
Regulars


Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: 2005.04.19(Tue)3:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

no offence but I wouldn't want to put any fish through that ordeal. fish get stressed on the ride home from the lfs imagine the stress of traveling in a car and regularily.

how do you intend to move the tank? if you want a salty I think you would be better off with something really small just invertabrates. easy to move you can just pick it up and stick it in the car plug in a bubbler(I beleive you can get bubblers that plug into car electrical outputs or you could get rechargeable batteries and a battery powered bubbler. not to sure if an invert only tank would need airation all the time during transportation. unlike fish being profestionaly shipped your take isn't in a bag full of air containing a hight % of oxygen.

good luck with your traveling nano. also invert only way easier to maintain.
_________________
32g planted community
7.5g Nano Reef
1 four legged wonder napper
2 winged demons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Psyfalcon
Regulars


Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: 2005.04.19(Tue)16:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need for me to make a decision yet, so I have some time, and of course, some questions. I'm not totally set on the saltwater thing, since I would probably have to sell off my colony of something, either my cories, bulldog plecs or Julidochromis. Not that I have enough tank space for them all now anyway.

I think the key to moving any tank is a cooler. I moved my convicts in the tank, since I couldnt catch them, but they got pretty beat up with the water acting as a wave in the lowered tank. Even taking my bulldog plecos home I want to put them in a cooler, as they are a rarer species. With an inverter, I could actually run a standard air pump, and even a small heater if I really had to, all plumbed through a small hole in the top. don't think I would just stick them in a bag for 6h, it might work actually, but it would be far safter to have a mobile ICU. If nothing else, keeping the live rock submerged, and the fish seperated, in bags, but with more water for avoiding temp variations.

Now for the onging questions.

Invert only, most of the sw forums I've seen are reef based, and in a blanket statement say that inverts require perfect water. Does this include sw snails and crabs? If so, does their lower waste production really offset the amount of extra care they would require? What type of filtration would you run for this sort of tank?

If I were to go with a small Damsel fish or even something similar for that matter, how would this tank be best filtered? I see a lot of people advocating skimmers, but those are really expensive, and I still see a large number of people saying you don't need that. What about refugiums for algae?

Any non reef based (or still very aplicable) links would be great too, thanks .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
The Old Salt
Regulars


Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2005.04.19(Tue)22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the attention to detail you pay, psyfalcon.

As for the filtration to be used, that depends on how much time you want to spend on maintenance.

Will you be living in a dorm? Will you have roommates?
I lived in a dorm, and the only place I had to put a tank was on that little bitty desk/dresser combo that most dormrooms have in them.
Will your R.A.'s let you keep a tank in your room? Can you keep it safe from your roomies' friends who might want to find out if a fish can get drunk?

If you will be able to stand the little bit of white noise it generates, a Skilter would be cheap and double as a pretty good skimmer and HOB box filter. It does make more noise than more expensive models, though, which is fine if you don't have a whiny little beyotch for a roomie.

A good old UGF might be just the thing if all you want is a fish and can make monthly water changes.

Oh, here's one more little tip: Kordon Breather Bags. These things make hauling fish over long distances a breeze. Many of my fish down here in south Alabama came from Chicago, and I bagged 'em in Chicago and came home via South Carolina. ( Not flying, but driving. ) You can order them directly from Kordon in lots of 100.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyfalcon
Regulars


Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: 2005.04.19(Tue)22:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are allowed by rule a single 10 gallon tank. How much we can go over that is the only thing dependent on the RA. I might end up with that job next year (current alternate) so the roommate and drunks could easily become a nonfactor.

Well, ignoring the cost of salt, which really shouldnt be an issue if I'm thinking about this, I could easily do bi-weekly water changes if I needed to. If I don't have to though, that would be great Wink Money is tighter than time, so those $150 + skimmers seem quite excessive right now.

I was looking at Skilters; but the smallest flow is 250gph. I see people have put them on 10s, so is there an adjustable flow rate, or is there another method to slowing things down. If I were to forgo all "reef" type filtration I would probably run a canister filter to get an extra gallon of water in the system, since I'm really not a fan of UGFs. I like sponges, but not undergravel, as I found it harder to deal with in my limited experience. Sponges seem to have issues all their own.

Would live rock be useful then, or only with the protein skimmer?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
The Old Salt
Regulars


Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2005.04.19(Tue)22:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Live rock has it's own problems. Many people think it's just a filter, and forget that it's also bioload which needs it's own careful care. Without the correct lighting, it won't do anything but die and rot. Well, eventually it'll become a filter again afterward, but you could buy much better filtration for the same money. WITH the corrct lighting, the small tank will heat up too much.

I don't think the Skilter has an adjustable flow rate, but you could block the spillway with a rock or something, I suppose. That is, you could have the waterfall crash onto a rock to prevent having a strong current in the tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KDodds
Advisors


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Location: Suffern, NY

PostPosted: 2005.04.20(Wed)6:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Live Rock is NOT a problem. Live Rock is ESSNTIAL in the long term health of any marine system. Reef Fishes NEED a reef structure in order to exist at a level that is relatively stress free. Without a reef structure, they can suffer terribly. Any prous rock you put into the tank will, eventually, become "live" in terms of bacterial colonization, at the very least. Base Rock is a better option for those who can not afford LR, or a mix of the two.

Live Rock is NOT bio-load. Yes, there are organisms that contribute waste, BUT they also break that down from "larger waste". In essence, they are filtering the tank on a mechanical level by eating particles, and on a biochemical level by sequestering some of the nutrients in that waste in their tissues. In a healthy tank with LR, the LR MORE than handles its own, EXTREMELY minute bio-load and more than makes up for it by processing the larger load within the system, and then some usually.

I'd be curious to know what "better filters" are out there since no other filter system, besides a DSB or Plenum, has enjoyed as much success. Commercial filter boxes, no matter the form, and their media are a thing of the past.

The Skilter is worthless. Save your money and look for an AquaC, BakPak, or WON Bros.
_________________
Kieron Dodds
Inside Aquatics
www.insideaquatics.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
tdfd
Members


Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: 2005.04.20(Wed)11:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are talking about a ten gallon tank with a single damsel in it. A undergravel filter or submersible power filter will work fine. I would not worry about liverock as you can put base rocks and acouple of fake corals in it. It will look nice. You will have to work hard to stay on top of your water chemistry in a tank so small but damsels are hardy fish
_________________
Fish are food not friends!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Old Salt
Regulars


Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: 2005.04.20(Wed)11:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a guy who wants to travel back and forth, live rock is a problem. For a guy with incorrect lighting, live rock is a problem. The live rocks as a whole ceratainly contribute to denitrification and nitrification, but they ARE "alive"
and living things contribute to bioload. Even the bacteria in the gravel ARE bioload. They might be considered "anti-bioload" when things are going good for them, but things can change. They need the proper care or the whole system will fail, and all I'm saying is that this needs to be always borne in mind. Why have a spazz over it?
If you want him to just have half-dead, bare, ugly base rock which serves only as a filter, then I suppose what you say is close enough to true, although I hope the frequent travel trips are short. A 10 gallon tank cntaining fish is no place to cure rock.

Yes, a Skilter is not exactly a good skimmer, but the guy wanted cheap, and the spacesaving ability it offers was worth mentioning. There is a new skimmer/filter/heater unit coming on the market this month which looks very promising. I only saw one ad for it and I can't remember the name, but it's a unit that sits inside the tank in a corner. The skimmer design is looks a lot better than most , and from the ad I got the impression that the thing wasn't very expensive.

A better filter? The Ecosystem filter blows all the others away without the first bit of rock, but in all fairness I concede that it's more expensive than rock. Live rock is FAR from essential in a marine system, but it is really handy.
I used to work on a commercial clownfish farm, among other things, and we never used live rock. We didn't use anemones, either. We had no trouble keeping the water in pristine condition, and the fish in happy spawning condition, despite out lack of the oh-so essential live rocks.

Am I saying that people shouldn't use live rock?
Not at all. In fact, most of the time I'd say that they would be crazy to NOT use it. They just need to know what to expect and what they should do to keep it lively and useful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
 Forum Index > Saltwater Basics All times are GMT - 6 Hours Search Board
Jump to:  
  You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2008 phpBB Group

oF <=> oC in <=> cm G <=> L