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Sand boa handling
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Taratron
Benefactors


Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)16:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reply to your husbandy questions, no, the tank is not in direct sunlight. What do you think I am, some kind of idiot? The pair has an undertank heating pad, and a nightlight bulb on a screen lid. Water is always offered in a ceramic bowl. Sand and spaghnum moss substrate. Both are fed once a week. Temperature in the tank is 88*F on the warm side.

Now, we could argue with this all day back and forth. However, I am not a PETA fanatic, and I am not going to watch my snake lay around as he does when I don't take him out after a series of trying to lift his lid, any more than I will release my dogs so that they can be as free as nature intended. No, I can't see through Nod's eyes. I can't be sure what he's thinking or what he wants, beyond the basic food/water/sex. On the other hand, I don't think that is all he thinks of.

But again, we are speaking at crossroads here. I don't think we can hear each other much, if at all. For the record, comparing someone to a PETA fanatic is not a good way to match an argument.
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But if you tame me, then we shall need each other....You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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TTYdrop
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Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: Shropshire, UK

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)17:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible that we are using words like affectionate where we should be using words like tollerant/impartial? Trying to think like a snake here, if something that instinct tells me wants to eat me picks me up, yeah Id be terrified. But if this continued day in - day out, I'm guessing that I might get used to it. "Oh look, that pink smelly blob has lifted me into the air again. Might as well enjoy the warmth, I havent been eaten so far..." etc etc.
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30gal stocked with; 4 x small Clown Loaches 1 x Female betta 6 x Albino Corys 6 x Neons
10gal stocked with; 2 x rock shrimps
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TTYdrop
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Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: Shropshire, UK

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)17:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops errr Taratron please don't think I'm calling you a pink smelly blob, that was just a generalisation Embarassed
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30gal stocked with; 4 x small Clown Loaches 1 x Female betta 6 x Albino Corys 6 x Neons
10gal stocked with; 2 x rock shrimps
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Steve Hampton
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)18:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long time snake care giver here. We currently have a King Snake, a Corn Snake, and 5 Ball Pythons. Handling a snake is crucial to taming the snake. It is less stressful for the snake and and the snake keeper if the snake is handled on a consistent basis. If not handled, snakes become more stressed when hands are stuck into their cage to change the water, clean the cage, or remove them to place them in their feeding cage. Without this interaction the snake will likely be more aggressive and defensive if not accustomed to being handled. While it's doubtful that our snakes have the ability to be affectionate as we understand the term, there is not doubt in my mind that our snakes know us and enjoy our touch and care...of that I am 100% certain about...and no amount of name calling and degradation from anyone will sway my thoughts and views which seem to be based on quasi-science and pontification. We love our snakes. We recognize that they are snakes...but, they are not in nature. Taming wild animals or reptiles requires more that sticking them in a cage and throwing in some food occasionally. It requires taking over the responsibility of their welfare. They become dependent upon their caregivers for every basic need and part of keeping them healthy is to handle them so that they are acclimated to being held. Handling a snake frequently allows for close inspection of any health issues and is a great form of exercise. Most cages don't allow snakes to freely move around as much as needed to remain healthy longterm. We have a nice cage from Cages By Design that cost a small fortune...but that is part of the responsibility too. So is making sure we don't just plop them into a cage and forget about them. Here's some of our babies.








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SLACkra
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)18:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I had my chameleon she wasn't terribly affectionate. she didn't beg to come out of the cage and be handled either. but if taratrons snake is continuously doing this behavior of attempting to leave the tank and that behavior is rewarded by coming out and "hanging out" with taratron and it continues to do this it knows that that behavior = attention. My love birds do the same thing. they run around the cage and lift the doors then drop them ect ect untill they are taken out. and they know that when they come out that means human attention/a chance to destroy the house. how ever the only thing I can say is taratron can we get some pics????

andrew
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7.5g Nano Reef
1 four legged wonder napper
2 winged demons
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Taratron
Benefactors


Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)20:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Steve. Smile Point was very valid and made!

We do have a lot of snakes, the more I think about it....5 ball pythons, 3 Brazilian rainbows, 4 Kenyan sand boas, and 3 corn snakes, the latter species in breeding season right now, so handling isn't exactly going to happen for the next few weeks!

As I type this, I have Nod around my neck; he wasn't poking around his tank lid, and certainly didn't fight to get back to his tank either!


And Slackra, once I figure out how to use our digital camera!
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But if you tame me, then we shall need each other....You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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nonamethefish
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2005.03.05(Sat)21:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think kilted was trying to say that snakes may not "like"(in human form) being handled. But since humans are going to be around the snake so much in captivity that as soon as a snake has settled down if it learns to be used to humans life in captivity would be less stressful. It is a similar analogy to some shy fish which we habituate to having humans around. While in the wild they might not have to deal with having a human around, in captivity you can try to make yourself dissapear by walking quietly or even putting paper over the front of the tank, you will still have to interact in one way or another with the fish.

*So says a complete no knowledge as far as snakes are concerned*
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Members


Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2005.03.07(Mon)18:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

So there are quite a few snake keepers on this board Shocked

Rainbow boas were my "dream snake" when I was younger but I never got one. Too expensive.

I'm going to try to avoid the "how snakes think" debarcle other than to say that IMO the best you can hope for with most captive animals is that they are healthy. I don't think I could tell the difference between a happy healthy snake and a sad healthy snake. The ball python (royal python as they are usually called over here) that I had some time ago showed no great desire to be handled and no particular dislike of it either. It's just a very docile kind of snake (..and a bugger to feed as I recall).

When I used to read snake books and magazines people would suggest that snakes like the body warmth of the owner, as someone has already mentioned. I'm a bit sceptical about this but it could be true. I'm much more easily convinced that some snakes enjoy the physical sensation of being handled, as by necessity a snake has to be a pretty tactile creature. Unless my memory is playing tricks on me I'm fairly sure my python liked being stroked under the chin. Not because it liked me, it just felt good.

Anyway, whether or not you make the effort to regularly handle your snakes, at some point you will have to handle them. At those times it's much better if they are used to it and so don't freak out.

One thing I have experienced is a change of personality from young snakes to mature snakes. I used to keep what were sold as "north american water snakes" which I think were natrix sipedon or something like that. They were very placid and easy to handle when young and naive but became increasingly aggressive as they got older and more streetwise. To the point that they would strike whenever you went near them. I hadn't handled them much at all and I didn't really want to handle them once they were aggresive. There's something very disconcerting about being bitten by a snake even if it's not that big. I certainly wouldn't like to be bitten by a python or boa.

The only thing I know about sand boas is that they're supposed to be a bit shy. Which suggests to me that, maybe when older, they could be a bit more skittish than they are now so I'd keep up the regular handling to stop them getting this way.
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