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Acclimation Process
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nvrnugh
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Joined: 24 Nov 2004

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)11:00    Post subject: Acclimation Process Reply with quote

Drip verses Bag??
My tank has been up and running for about seven months now (including cycling time). I have a clown and yellow tang and I am starting to add calcium/trace elements for future coral additions. I do a 10% water change bi weekly and all and I do mean all of my numbers are perfect and steady.

In the past two months or so I have tried to add (and certainly not all at once) 3 Green Chromis, Yellow Watchman Goby and 3 Allen
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Huntress
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)13:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

How large is the tank?
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SLACkra
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)16:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

when introducing fish to the tank this is the method I use and I have had 0 deaths from introduction since I started using it. float bag for 15mins. test pH and salinity of the water in the bag and your tank water if there is a big difference between pH or salinity then after the 15 mins of floating add 1/2 a cup of water then wait 5-7 mins then do this for a while untill the bag has been completely full and empty it then fill it up agian. by the secound fill up it should be good for release. if the pH and salinity are near the same then introduce it faster.

andrew
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)18:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, sorry for your losses, must be frustrating.
Sounds like classic new tank syndrome but I trust you have cycled properly; as far as acclimation both will work but I always drop an airstone in the bag, which greatly reduces stress and has an amazing calming effect on all species. Sorry to answer a question with more questions, but...

1. Can we rule out PREDATION, I.e. mantis shrimp in LR, large hermit, etc...
(are you finding the losses or are they just disappearing)?

2. Can we rule out DISEASE, pathogens, oodinum cryptocaryon etc...
(are the losses showing any symptoms, I.e. white or black spots, etc.)?

3. Can we rule out POISONING, either ORGANIC as in Sea Apple/cucumbers, or CHEMICAL as in metals hidden inside your live rock, a rusty piece of equipment above the tank slowly dripping, possible external issues such as bug spray, aeresols etc.?

4. Have ANY animals survived this period, including inverts on LR, crustaceans, bivalves etc. okay or ALL animals dead?

5. Have you tried a different SUPPLIER, was it LFS or mail order here... outside chance the fish were poorly shipped/handled/doomed before you bought them?
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Last edited by FloridaBoy on 2005.02.16(Wed)21:22; edited 1 time in total
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MarkLehr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Location: Taylorsville, KY

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)18:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

First let me say Slackra, you and I almost always see eye to eye. Unfortunately, this is probably my biggest hot topic when it comes to fishkeeping, so instead of looking the other way I am going to express my opinion and cause an uproar. Hopefully some experienced hobbyists out there will read this post, you know who you are, and jump in to support me on this!
This topic has been full of controversy for an entire decade and we do not seem to be making progress.

There seem to be 3 schools of thought in regards to acclimation. The first Slackra has explained above, which is by far my least favorite. The second is the drip method, which I can tolerate but do not agree with. The third method is no acclimation at all, which is what I personally do. Shocked

In the early 90's some interesting studies were done on the floating acclimation process. It turns out that the water inside a TIED fish bag severly degrades in quality while it is being floated. The oxygen exchange which normally occurs THRU the plastic does not occur as well, because of the water surrounding part of the bag. ( If anyone doubts that gas exchange occurs thru a plastic fish bag, you can place a dead fish in a zip lock plastic bag and leave it in your room for a few days. Then tell me if it doesn't stink.)

In addition, the change from the LFS environment to the at home environment, especially in a saltwatet tank, is insignificant compared to the change which occurs in the water while floating a bag.

A similar thing occurs to the water inside the fish bag during transport. The quality of this water supply drop rapidy, and it is difficult to justify any arguement which favors keeping the fish inside this poor environment longer than necessary. For the sake of space, I will avoid the details to this for now. There have been many 3 page magazine articles in TFH and AFM devoted to this topic. Many, such as Eric Borneman, have been bold enough to discuss this openly.

To clarify, my exact no acclimation technique is this: Upon bagging your fish at the LFS without a net being used, proceed immediately to the register and put your fish in a brown paper bag. Do not open this bag again until you are standing at your aquarium. Immediatly upon opening the bag, drain all water out into your sink, leaving only a fish, and gently pour the fish into your aquarium, which has lights out and well fed fish. Your new fish will swim away with a smile on its face and mutter some comment like "hmmm... the pH in this tank is much more to my liking than the water in that bag. I am soooo glad they didn't float the bag like they did at that LFS."

Isn't it funny that the only advice from the LFS which we listen to is the acclimation advice?
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Taratron
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: AZ

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)19:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about just a dunk in...a sink or swim idea, in essence!


For example, the zoo's QT station has water that is kept at a salinity of 1.015. I don't know the reason, but I have been told it's because the QT dealer has problems with marine ich, which I can understand entirely with wild caught, stressed animals. But at my building, the salinity is more like 1.024. So dropping a stressed puffer, or a queen angel (like our recent shipment) right into our water would be a disaster.

It's easy enough to lose a marine animal, fish or invert, besides. We use the drip method, and yes, it has its fallouts, but I can't say I have lost a fish from it yet. That .009 salinity change probably would have seen that I did, had the approach been, you sink, or you swim away!
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)19:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, no uproar here, but in all my experience, I have never heard of anyone dropping a fish in a different system without ANY acclimation process.
Mark is "dead" right about the closed bags; always open.
Not sure about all LFS's, but many of the better quality ones will add oxygen to all SW retail bags; this maintains a reasonable level of water quality during transport; my wife and I always used medical grade oxygen in our bags when transporting our catches from our holding pens in the FL Keys to the retailer tanks in Orlando; no losses ever. In addition, I have never lost a fish while acclimating in an open plastic bag (see notes above on airstones in the bag) or drip method; however I have seen SW fish go into massive pH shock without proper acclimation... just my 2 cents.
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SLACkra
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)22:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

what I do when I am aclimitizing is I add the 1/2-1 cup of water then filll this seringe full of my tank water then jet it into the bag(not at the fish/invert) this creates a lot of airation like a wave hitting the coast. I could see where the direct adding would work as long as you know that the salinity and pH of the fish's old tank water is very simular to your own.

andrew
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sirreal63
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Location: St Louis

PostPosted: 2005.02.16(Wed)22:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkLehr wrote:
Immediatly upon opening the bag, drain all water out into your sink, leaving only a fish, and gently pour the fish into your aquarium, which has lights out and well fed fish. Your new fish will swim away with a smile on its face and mutter some comment like "hmmm... the pH in this tank is much more to my liking than the water in that bag. I am soooo glad they didn't float the bag like they did at that LFS."

Isn't it funny that the only advice from the LFS which we listen to is the acclimation advice?


I hope you are dropping him into the QT tank instead of the display tank.

I always acclimate mine in the bag, but I open it and roll the top edges over a few times to trap air so it will float. I remove most of the water from the bag and float if for about 5-10 minutes, depending on the temp. Then I add about a quarter cup of water from the QT, (or display tank before I had sense to set up the 10 gallon QT) and add another quarter cup every 5 to 10 minutes until the bag is almost full. Then I pour out all of the water into a pail I keep beside the tank and let the fish slip into the tank. Only a drop or two of the LFS water enters my tank and the fish usually darts for cover.

I started doing this with my freshwater tanks over a year ago and have never lost a fish from being introduced into my tank. Cool

Mark...you have big ones Brother. Shocked
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nvrnugh
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Joined: 24 Nov 2004

PostPosted: 2005.02.24(Thu)13:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry it took so long unfortunately busy at work on my PC and not wanting to go home to another one Shocked

Here are the answers:

I have a 38 gallon

1. Can we rule out PREDATION, I.e. mantis shrimp in LR, large hermit, etc...
(are you finding the losses or are they just disappearing)? No we can't and ALL fish have disappeared but I really don't have a very large hermit... about an inch and unless my coral banded shrimp is the guy I really don't know

2. Can we rule out DISEASE, pathogens, oodinum cryptocaryon etc...
(are the losses showing any symptoms, I.e. white or black spots, etc.)? Yes all fish are as colorfully with no signs of disease

3. Can we rule out POISONING, either ORGANIC as in Sea Apple/cucumbers, or CHEMICAL as in metals hidden inside your live rock, a rusty piece of equipment above the tank slowly dripping, possible external issues such as bug spray, aeresols etc.? Yes, I have none

4. Have ANY animals survived this period, including inverts on LR, crustaceans, bivalves etc. okay or ALL animals dead? Yes, the first two Tang (I know that you are going to say I don't have enough room but I have an agreement with the LFS to swap for smaller as he gets to big) and my Clown and my cleaning crew that was first in the tank (other than a few hermits and snails that went in a few hours or next day)

5. Have you tried a different SUPPLIER, was it LFS or mail order here... outside chance the fish were poorly shipped/handled/doomed before you bought them? I have two suppliers with very few tanks and saltwater.com but yes disappearing act from all


I have only ever heard of the bag and drip methods and not the straight to tank one. I will try adding the airstone to the bags.

I went out and got a royal gramma and sleeper goby and all are still in full view for four days now. Very Happy
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