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Kideafish
Regulars


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Location: South Wales ( U.K)

PostPosted: 2004.10.16(Sat)6:58    Post subject: Discussions Reply with quote

Hi all,

I know that this topic may cause some controversy now but I would like to ask why some certain threads are removed from the board.

I understand that abuse personally to someone is not condoned, this should be to ALL members , not just staff and hopefully is the case.

BUT I noticed lately that , appreciatingly I have received some nice comments from members then noted that they were REMOVED !!

Why ? I am not an advisor or mod , I understand, but I have been a memeber for sometime now and try my best to help out when I can.

ALSO I note that , an angry member it seems , mentioning no names , posted a thread on here which stated ' You are all losers (?) , I beliee it was.

I answered this remark courteously and wondered if a joke or someone had upset this member.
This isnt the first time this has happened and I thought that instead of removing it , it may be better to try and figure out why some members are so outraged. I remember getting irate at some remarks made to my threads when firs came on here and really , by reading other threads by people, I now know what to expect and when I should take things on the shoulders and not get riled.
Now I know that HUNTRESS can be abrupt etc. but if someone has something to say to her then she will discuss the problem and hopefully it gets rectified. Ihave never had a run in with Huntress though , I must say.

I know that some people also resort to private messaging to ask questions and I have had quite a lot of these and it worries me that members are too worried about opening threads as they either feel they sound daft or are worried about being made to feel daft etc.

I have to mention that although I am a member of other discussion forums , this one I still enjoy the most but more and more new members seem to be getting ticked off anfd frustrated.

Surely we do not want this and it would be nice if
a. Compliments to non staff were not removed and accepted by Staff members as not meant as demeaning to them
b. We try and rectify problems that angry members are annoyed about.

Obviously there are members out there that can get the wrong end of the stick and ' lose it ' with no reason, but some feel genuinely rejected.

Something should be done to rectify these things I think, or a GOOD reason as to why they arent.

Well thats it .....Please anyone new also..... Fire away .......
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Kideafish

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randomrambler
Regulars


Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Location: MA

PostPosted: 2004.10.16(Sat)11:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

elequently spoken, kidea. I believe that compliments to non staff should be fine.. kidea is a very knowlegable person and I follow her advice just as closely as a mod such as irons or huntress. I do think the "you are all losers" post was not deleted because of your reply, kidea, as much as it was because it was offensive.
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Steve Hampton
Moderators


Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: 2004.10.16(Sat)14:59    Post subject: Re: Discussions Reply with quote

Kideafish wrote:
Hi all,

I know that this topic may cause some controversy now but I would like to ask why some certain threads are removed from the board.


There's a variety of reasons an entire topic would be removed, but to generalize...if the first post in the topic didn't ask a question, or was abusive and contained profanity it would be removed. No exceptions and zero toleration. If someone has an issue with the site or another member they can attempt to resolve that issue in a civil manner in the Site Issues Forum. However, posting a single sentence that says "You all suck!!! isn't going to be tolerated.

Quote:

I understand that abuse personally to someone is not condoned, this should be to ALL members , not just staff and hopefully is the case.


I have no idea if you have hidden meaning here or not, but suffice to say that abuse to anyone, staff or other members will not be tolerated. We have right at 4,000 registered members, only a handful of which ever post drivel such as the one mentioned above. The rest of the group seems to be able to control their emotions and so there is no need nor any desire to tolerate those few that want to spoil the experience for others.


Quote:
BUT I noticed lately that , appreciatingly I have received some nice comments from members then noted that they were REMOVED !!


Are you saying that someone created a topic about how much help you were and the topic was deleted?

Quote:
Why ?


Unless their were problems related to abusive/profane language and/or it was a series of useless unreadable chatroom type banter the post shouldn't/wouldn't have been purposely deleted. Sometimes errors do occur, moving a post gets lost..etc.

Quote:
I am not an advisor or mod , I understand, but I have been a memeber for sometime now and try my best to help out when I can.


And participation from the regular members is the backbone of what these forums are about. Everyone is equally important here. The only difference is the degree of knowedge and experience and for some the job they do to insure that the forums run smoothly and are suitable to be read by an international audience and whether someone is 8 or 80 years old.


Quote:
ALSO I note that , an angry member it seems , mentioning no names , posted a thread on here which stated ' You are all losers (?) , I beliee it was.

I answered this remark courteously and wondered if a joke or someone had upset this member.
This isnt the first time this has happened and I thought that instead of removing it , it may be better to try and figure out why some members are so outraged.


Nope. If someone has a complaint they can voice it in a mature and courteous manner. Then, we'll see if the problem can be worked out. Otherwise, a post like the one you mentioned would simply be deleted. We have a place and welcome those to express problems in a proper way. Filling a forum with useless condemning posts will be cleaned up and deleted without prejudice.


Quote:
I know that some people also resort to private messaging to ask questions and I have had quite a lot of these and it worries me that members are too worried about opening threads as they either feel they sound daft or are worried about being made to feel daft etc.


Over the years I've received literally hundreds of questions and requests. I've never read anything more into that than simply some people prefer to have a certain persons view on a subject and asking in the general forums may not get that "preferred" persons opinions.



Quote:
I have to mention that although I am a member of other discussion forums , this one I still enjoy the most but more and more new members seem to be getting ticked off anfd frustrated.


This certainly does run in cycles. It's important to me to be able to judge the "quality" of the people getting ticked off and leaving. If it's abusive people or people that do not want to hear that 3 goldfish and a common pleco can't be kept in a 5 gallon tank then so be it. Nothing can be taught to those unwilling to be taught. BTW, I've "left" a time or two myself, due to all the influx of uncaring, unconcerned, unwilling to listen, and abusive short term members. We are a large and very popular site, as such we do get more than our share of trolls...people who's only desire in being here is to stir up trouble. Recognizing those people and stopping them early into the game is one of the highest priority issues the staff deals with on a daily basis. You would not believe how much effort and work goes on behind the scences of a busy discussion forum like this one.


Quote:
Surely we do not want this and it would be nice if
a. Compliments to non staff were not removed and accepted by Staff members as not meant as demeaning to them

You know, this is almost a slap in the face. Without question, no one has ever purposely deleted compliments to non staff members. Why? Are you suggesting that the staff doesn't want to see compliments to non-staff? If so, I'll simply state that is total and complete hogwash and I for one I'm deeply offended by the accusation. Hopefully I've misinterpeted your meaning.

Quote:

b. We try and rectify problems that angry members are annoyed about.


We have a specific forum for handling that, but again, only if approached in a courteous and non abusive manner. Angry members can voice all the problems and annoyances they have in the proper forum and in a respectful manner. Otherwise, it will be deleted/removed.

Quote:

Obviously there are members out there that can get the wrong end of the stick and ' lose it ' with no reason, but some feel genuinely rejected.


Even on the best of forums mistakes are made. Even the best and friendliest members from time to time have disagreements. All that is part of being exposed to each other by keyboard only. Losing the face to face contact makes for far greater potential misunderstandings. Occasionally those misunderstandings can't be resolved and people move on. It's all part of this type of communcation. The staff tends to look at issues over the long haul. We could probably fill out each day with pandering to lost souls who wear their emotions on their sleeves and become upset over trival issues. However, we are here with a job to do. That job is to provide a moderated forum where people can ask questions and receive a variety of opinions on the subject. All the rest of the petty bickering and complaining will always take a back seat to the job at hand. Again the number of people with a problem verses the number of people that come to the site to ask a question and receive an excellent response is very very small.

Quote:

Something should be done to rectify these things I think, or a GOOD reason as to why they arent.

Well thats it .....Please anyone new also..... Fire away .......


To summarize I just want to point out again that you really have no way of knowing what other replies or problems may have been in a post that got deleted. And frankly, most of the posts aren't deleted but are actually moved to a "Hidden" forum for thread storage and possible referral to the ISP of the threatening/abusive/profane poster...it's the best way to preserve the "evidence" and to save the offenders IP address.

Ever so often this subject comes up and it's always a good idea to present both sides on the situation. I really appreciate the concern and respectful (other than that staff deleting compliments statement) way with which you've relayed your feelings. I hope I've given you a better understanding of the process and the why's of our actions. Unfortunately we can't always disclose every reason for every post removal, but rest assured that if a topic is not littered with abuse and profanity or it starts with a single sentence complaint post it will not be deleted...on purpose.
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Kideafish
Regulars


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Location: South Wales ( U.K)

PostPosted: 2004.10.18(Mon)10:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Steve for your detailed explanation and I really do not mean to offend anyone out there .

Thank you Random for taking part in this discussion also

Yes , a compliment to myself was deleted and the moderators at the time on the board were actually yourself and another advisor.

I can confirm it was deleted as a pm was sent to myself, from the person that put the thread on ( thanking me for help and not at all rude or uncourteous) while on line that time and I checked and was deleted about 5 mins after being put on .

I am in no way wanting to cause disruption or fall out with anyone here but I was a little annoyed that that thread was deleted ( deleted not moved as checked threads from that person that day and gone ).
I am sorry you felt that what I said was offending but I felt offended myself and could see no other reason for this !!
As you said it could have been an error and I apologise for upsetting anyone if this was, but perhaps more care should be taken in deleting messages such as these!
I have aired my feelings and also discussed angry members feelings, which were my point.

I am aware that there are a lot of members on the board and that perhaps to have people with a bad attitude posting may be too time consuming to get into a discussion with so point taken .

I myself have had issues here also but you learn to deal with it over a time, as you have yourself.

Again I thank you
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Kideafish

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SherryNE
Moderators


Joined: 05 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2004.10.18(Mon)10:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was the content of the post? In order to be deleted on purpose, a post must have offensive or objectionable language, be a personal attack on another person, or the original post in the thread may be invalid: this would occur, if the original post said something like " I like tetras" and nothing else. If a thread is started by a post that is vapid and void of a purpose that includes fishkeeping info, it may be deleted. There are exceptions, of course, and that's not a complete list.
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Kideafish
Regulars


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Location: South Wales ( U.K)

PostPosted: 2004.10.18(Mon)11:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its no problem Sherry , but thanks for your concern ...

I do not want to sound off about this and especially do no want offend anyone as I think a lot of the STAFF on this forum , including yourself, do an excellent job .....
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Kideafish

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Cyradia
Moderators


Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

PostPosted: 2004.10.18(Mon)12:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last week I deleted a thread that you started, which may be what you're referring to. The thread in question was started by you and said something along the lines of, 'MemberXYZ, I have answered your PM.' To that I believe the other member responded thanking your for your answer. Nowhere in the thread was their any useful details of the question or the answer. It was in a main fish forum, not a lounge.

We have private messages so that conversations that only need to happen between two people can occur there and not clutter the board. There is code in place that pops up a window to let members know when they have new messages. You do not need to post a topic on a main fish forum alerting a member to check their messages. The one exception to this is if a mailbox is full and the member needs to empty it so they can receive their new messages...and these may be placed on the site issues forum for people.

I think it's wonderful you're helping other board members through PMs. Most of us do. I removed your thread because it didn't hold anything useful for the bulk of readers of the board and would leave every member save one with a feeling of being left out of a loop. It had nothing to do with the fact you were complimented in it.
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Kideafish
Regulars


Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Location: South Wales ( U.K)

PostPosted: 2004.10.18(Mon)12:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Cyradia,

I wondered what happened, and you are right I did put the message on there advising of an answer to a pm .

Sorry if incorrect , the reason I did that was that I had been sent a pm from another member earlier that day and then had another pm from that member asking if I could help again.

I advised that I had replied but they did not get the message so I put , maybe wrongly, a thread on here to let another member know that I had just answered their question, and yes he added the compliment to the end of that thread.

You have all been very quick and helpful with your answers, again I thank you and hope I did not offend anyone .

And welcome to everyone NEW on this forum
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Kideafish

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PostPosted: 2004.11.29(Mon)11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I've had a few posts removed too which was not neccessary!
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Huntress
Moderators


Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: 2004.11.29(Mon)11:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are talking about that discussion between yourself and your "brother who doesn't live with you but shares the same IP address" then it was extremely necessary. It was just back and forth, "Wolf cichlids are better. " "No oscars are better." type of chit chat. Those types of what's your favorite (insert type of fish, animal, sports team, etc) discussions are done to death adn the moderators agreed on that particular one to be removed.

Hope this clears things up a bit.
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