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Fish rule
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MasterOfTheFish
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Joined: 11 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2004.07.11(Sun)11:28    Post subject: Fish rule Reply with quote

Hi all fish lovers,
I have joined this clan because I'm getting my first fish and I need lots of tips on looking after them. I've only got a 15L tank to start off with and I'm getting 2 goldfish and a weather loach so please can you help me


MasterOfTheFish
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nonamethefish
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Joined: 06 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2004.07.11(Sun)21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

First things first. A 15L is much to small for even 1 goldfish. I'd reccomend doing lots of research on general aquarium keeping...such as nitrogen cycle etc. etc. tank size. This knowledge will be invaluable in setting up a successful tank.

Good Luck! Feel free to ask any q's after You've got the basics. Plenty of good sites out there!
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guppicat
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Location: melbourne, australia

PostPosted: 2004.07.12(Mon)1:39    Post subject: have fun with your goldies Reply with quote

I disagree. I think a 15 litre is a good size for a couple of goldfish (and maybe even a small loach)although active types like comets and shubunkins might get bored. fantails would be fine though. I kept 3 adult guppies and their first batch of fry in a small 4 litre tank for before I got my current much larger tank. there is a good rule you can use when stocking tank with fish and it is
one litre=2 centimetres of fish ( from tip of nose to base of tail)
this rule has worked great for me
with a tank this size though it is REALLY important to do water changes and set up the right balance!
Good luck I started out with one tank of goldfish when I was 11 and it has become a great hobby ( my family now has an axolotl and fish tank , a tropical tank and another goldy tank) ending up with a coldwater community tank (with goldies and other sorts) and a guppy breeding tank in my small room ( also a small snail breeding tank and some sea monkeys LOL Laughing .
have fun luv cat
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uLtRa
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Location: Southend, UK

PostPosted: 2004.07.12(Mon)2:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think a 15 litre is a good size for a couple of goldfish (and maybe even a small loach)


No, no, NO! I think a 15GALLON would be a good size for two small- medium sized goldies, let alone a 15LITRE!
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guppicat
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Location: melbourne, australia

PostPosted: 2004.07.12(Mon)3:57    Post subject: I thnk it is big enough. Reply with quote

sorry
I thought it would be fine ( has been for me) but obviously I'm wrong. how big is a gallon though coz I really don't know. like how may litres is approx one gallon. I am just going on the experiences I have had with MY fish but everyones different. it IS much nicer for the fishies if you have a bigger tank but if you HAVE already bought a smaller one you shouldn't have to return it. if you have good filtration and look after the tank well your fishies will be FINE (I did mean smallish-med size ones but then I've had mine for years and they haven't grown past 10 cms). I mean goldfish were originally kept in bowls for heavens sake ( and still are!). otther fish you could consider instead of goldys if your worried bout size are white clouds or other small schooling fish which can look very pretty and are not hard to care for. my brother kept two goldfish, and three danios in a 6 litre for years and they lived to a good old age. it's always different for evrybody, you really gotta just care for your fsh enough. maybe litres are dif around the world but I don't think so.
sorry if my info was wrong don't be mad luv cat
ps hi to you in the uk, I used to live in glasgow n then london and I miss it.
have a nice day.
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Huntress
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: 2004.07.12(Mon)8:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guppicat a 15L tank is about 4 US gallons which makes it toally unsuitable to house a fish that can potentially reach 24" long as in comets or 15" long as in some types of fancy goldfish as in Bruce portrayed in this link here.

http://hometown.aol.com/_ht_a/kmam1/MyPond/GiantGoldfish.html

I actually took a picture yesterday of a fish that looked to be about 2 1/2 - 3 feet long in Duck Pond at the Houston Zoo. There were dozens of them that were just as big if not bigger.

Recomendations for fancy types are about 15g for the first fish and 10g each additional fish. Comets and such should really stay in ponds or very large tanks due to their length and need for huge spaces to swim.

The reason why your fish never grew any bigger was because they became stunted and that severely shortens the fish's lifespan not to mention causes internal organ problems. At the vet I work for, we did a necropsy on a goldfish that was living in a 2g bowl and the owner wanted to know why it died. Not only was it suffering from ammonia, nitrite AND nitrate poisoning, the internal organs were severely impacted and blood vessels had popped all over the inside of the fish. Not a nice way to die.

How old did your brother's fish live to? I'm asking this because goldfish, when properly cared for can live an excess of 15-50 years, some koi species can live over 100 years.

Litres are the same everywhere and there are Imperial Gallons and US gallons. There is a conversion tool at the bottom of every page on this board where you see how many litres in a gallon or gallons into litres and other measurment conversions. Thanks Marcos. Smile

Actually I hate to disillusion you again but goldfish were NEVER originally kept in bowls. They have been bred for ponds by the chinese and Japanese for about 1700 years. Although around the Ming dynasty they did end up indoors as pets in bowls (from what other info I found these bowls were HUGE) and enabled mutations that would never have been found in the outdoor ponds and that is what started the breeding programs we have today. Here's a link on the history.

http://www.bristol-aquarists.org.uk/goldfish/info/info.htm

The reason why they are still kept in tiny bowls is because people are not educated about the real needs of goldfish. These guys are such heavy waste producers that even if they did stay small enough to stay in a 2g bowl they'd be swimming in their own poop all day every day and that accumulates several times a day. Not to mention the secretions that they expell as well. Yuck there is no way I would want to live like that.

Hope this helps.
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guppicat
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Location: melbourne, australia

PostPosted: 2004.07.13(Tue)1:00    Post subject: sorry, I'm not really dumb I just look it right now Reply with quote

hi sorry again I guess I really am undereducated.
I know that goldfish in large tanks or ponds can reach a very large size but I have had mine for a really long time and they just don't seem to have grown much more. but they aren't stunted or overcrowded they look like normal fish. weird?
and by the way that is REALLY sad bout fish dying that way never new that before but it's certainly somethin to think bout. I also know that what I said bout fish in bowls was wrong. my memory is very short so my idea of originally only goes as far back as when my mum was a kid. but I did know bout the fishbreeding in old china and japan, most of the most beautiful breeds came from it.
I TOTALLY agree with you about the goldfish bowls. people don't really seem to realise that a fish is actually a pet, and certainly one that needs room to move. my friends was given fish for her birthday in a bowl which looked nice but had barely any surface area unless it was filled only half way. I told her she had to get a tank and evntually the fish moved to school in a MUCH larger tank. by the way my brother has ha dhis fish for ages and they are still very much alive.
Actually reading your letter I really am embarrassed bout how many obvious mistakes I have made Embarassed. I really am just going on my personal experience but now I have been told otherwise I will think properly bout my fish and pipe down before I go and post all the time on this board when I'm probably wrong. anyway thanks for the links I'm bout to visit them and I am sorry MasterOfTheFish if I have led you astray. I think that at the start I meant to say that this size would be fine for now but you need to move up some sizes along the way.
anyway hope you don't all hate me for my apparent ignorance ireally do love my fish (and all my animals) and I am improving all my fish tanks with the help of my aquarium and now this website so please keep helping me.
please have a nice day lov cat
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Huntress
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: 2004.07.13(Tue)9:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL cat there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Not many people know a lot about goldfish. Way back when Marcos made moderators for specific boards. He asked me to be the mod of the goldfish board, but I knew very little about them. Even though we weren't supposed to be experts in the forum we were asked to moderate in, I decided to learn as much as I could. It's amazing how little I knew, but once I get the bit in my teeth it's off I go. Smile

Just to explain a bit about stunting. It really means the fish in question does not reach the size nature intended. It still looks normal, but it is much smaller than it is supposed to be. On the inside however is a different story. That's why your fish didn't look deformed.
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guppicat
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Location: melbourne, australia

PostPosted: 2004.07.14(Wed)0:53    Post subject: oh thats what stunted is! Reply with quote

oh thanks heaps
about the stunting. thanks for the info, I always just assumed that the fishes fins looked deformed or something when stunted. is there any way of reversing the cycle? like if I only kept my two fav goldies? two of them are the schools pets anyway so I could take them back to my class which wouldn't be so suicidal as it would have last year( a girl tipped coke in the tank but she has left the school). coz I don't want my fish to get sick or anything. luckily I totally started anew with my guppy tank instead of using a tiny tank we had found in the basement. don't you think it's amazing how many tanks are sold (even in good aquariums) that are too small for real fish. or those stupid bowls with fake tvs and couches in them. I always thought that if good places sold them they must be right. I dunno maybe people keep bettas in them. I also find that sad. in housten do you get those TINY little hexagonal tanks that pet stores sell those beautiful bettas in. they would even hold a litre and have no room for plants or gravel. I know that they have the labyrinth organ or whatever its called so they can still breath in there but having no shelter or swimming room. boy would they get stunted and sad and lonely and BORED. the sad thing is that when the bettas arrive on the shelves they are beautiful and happy. when I went there a week later they had lost a lot of colour and sat on the bottom of the tank. in aust pets paradise sells them as "the perfect first pet" "easy to look after" "greeat for peopl who have little room or time" and "GREAT OFFICE PETS". I just feel sad. also they don't tell you you need a heater for them. I went to my aquarium and they said you do (especially in melb where it IS cold) anyway that betta thing was totally off the subject. sorry!
thanks for your help and please reply bout my goldfish. I really couldn't afford a new tank so I think thats not a possiblility especially since my parents bought the guppy set up
byebye luv cat
by the way that goldfish BRUCE was amazing. I thought you meant a comet or something but that was one BIG oranda. beauty mate. I saw some beautiful and MASSIVE shubunkins recently in a pond at a maze. really big too.
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JUDY
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004

PostPosted: 2004.08.21(Sat)14:12    Post subject: black molly and goldfish Reply with quote

can you have a goldfish and a blackmolly together in a 10 gl. tank and what should the water tem. be? Question
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