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Simple Beginners Question
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Widower
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Joined: 11 Aug 2003

PostPosted: 2004.03.04(Thu)18:09    Post subject: Simple Beginners Question Reply with quote

A short simple question, hopefully with a short simple answer.

"Can I use an already established Freshwater filter, to start a Marine aquarium?"

Thanks.
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2004.03.10(Wed)4:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

No saltwater and freshwater bacteria are 2 different bacterias. They would not survive in each others environment. You would have to cycle the sw tank from scratch.
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JGonier
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Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

PostPosted: 2004.04.03(Sat)20:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

karlas wrote:
No saltwater and freshwater bacteria are 2 different bacterias. They would not survive in each others environment. You would have to cycle the sw tank from scratch.


If this theory is true, then what about this? Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. makes Stress Zyme. (for the people not familure with this) This is something you add to your new or existing tank to improve the development of your biological filter and help keep a naturally balanced aquarium.

The label says this....

For fresh and saltwater aquariums
100 million live bacteria per tsp.
Use to set up and maintain a fresh or saltwater aquarium
Prevents exposure to toxic ammonia and nitrite
and
helps clean a dirty tank

Based on this product, wouldn't the above statement then be false? I am only thinking this because the bacteria in this product can be used in either fresh or saltwater.

Just a thought to ponder over.
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Chris A
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Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: 2004.04.05(Mon)14:14    Post subject: Snake oil Reply with quote

It is not possible to package lithotropic (sp?) bacteria longer than 2 weeks.
The majority of the bacteria in these "Cycling" products is heterotropic (again SP?) which are responsible for "breaking down" solid waste into liquid waste. The "theory" is if there is more liquid waste the right bacteria will grow faster. Say you have two cars that are exactly the same except one has a 20L gas tank and the other a 40L tank, using the above line of thinking the one with the 40 L tank will go faster. (common sense says that's not the case) Nitrifing bacteria multiply every 30 min, no faster. As with most things in aquariums time is the best answer. Very Happy

Chris

Ps. Hagen's "Cycle" is the exact same thing as their "Waste Control" (only a lower concentration) and is bought from the Detroit water treatment plant where it is used for their solidwaste tanks. I once had a rep foolishly tell me that. Little did he know I don't like Hagen Wink !
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2004.05.05(Wed)5:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually tried using a few of the zymes 2 different kinds and they seem to straighten out the water for maby 2 days then the water goes back to normal. I tried this with a cycle and I had no luck with it. But the bacterias are different. I've had many tanks and did the fresh to brackish I had to recycle from scratch, from brackish to salt the same thing.
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Choice Words
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Joined: 29 May 2003
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

PostPosted: 2004.05.05(Wed)6:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adding chemicals that claim to help your tank will never result in a "naturally balanced" aquarium. The VAST majority of them are snake oils. The only chemical you need for a freshwater aquarium is something to remove chlorine and chloramines, without bacteria, aloe vera, ammonia reducers, etc etc etc.

There can be a place and a time for some of them, especially an ammonia product which will render ammonia harmless to fish, but ususally only in extreme emergencies. You don't want to be messing with your water, your filter, and your pH with chemicals. There are natural ways to change pH slightly that are NOT stressful to fish, and the bacteria in your tank will ALWAYS grow in with time. (ps. BioSpira is not a chemical, but actually IS the correct type of live bacteria for your tank, so this is an exception to the cycling products.)

Other potions, powders, and the like are just there to get you to spend your money and feel like you're taking control of your aquarium. It's ridiculous to quote a commerical product when trying to dispute science.

It makes complete sense that saltwater bacteria and freshwater bacteria are different. Bacteria are very specialized to salinity. For an example, think ofe the bacteria in a sore throat. There's a reason gargling with salt water helps. Osmosis is a important function in celluar processes, and the improper salinity will either make the bacterium swell and burst or shrink and dry up.
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T5Chris
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004

PostPosted: 2004.05.06(Thu)2:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good question. I've have a similar bacteria bottle at 100 million rating. It also says freshwater or marine aquariums. What I also know is that there are some that have worked with freshwater and have been used in brackish environments with the same success.

Maybe they're bacteria common to both environments, so to answer the question; you'll most likely have to cycle again...but, you might be able to use something like that to speed up the process.

Nevertheless, cycle with care.
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karlas
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: 2004.07.23(Fri)4:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

the best way to cycle is throw some peel n eat shrimp in the tank and let it do its thing. the zymes that I tried were just quick fixes and wouldnt waste the money on them again not for salt water or brackish anyway.
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The Kapenta Kid
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Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: 2004.07.23(Fri)9:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choice Words wrote:
Adding chemicals that claim to help your tank will never result in a "naturally balanced" aquarium. The VAST majority of them are snake oils.


There are a lot of interesting points raised in this thread. I don't want to hijack it so I have started a new one in this forum
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Mario
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY, USA

PostPosted: 2004.07.23(Fri)10:16    Post subject: Re: Snake oil Reply with quote

Chris A wrote:
Nitrifing bacteria multiply every 30 min, no faster. As with most things in aquariums time is the best answer. Very Happy


Just as a side note: Nitrifying bacter CAN under IDEAL CONDITIONS divide every 30 minutes. In nature (and in aquariums) the generation time is most certainly much longer.

Measured generation times in soil (of bateria that can double within an hour) have been as high as 7 days. I would think that the generation time of bacteria in aquariums lies somewhere in the middle of these two times.
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