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(Pic) Is this or is this not BBA?
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Laskey
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Northern Germany

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)16:04    Post subject: (Pic) Is this or is this not BBA? Reply with quote



Can you please look very hard at this picture and tell me whether it looks like a variation of BBA. The reason I ask, is because someone said the only reason it's not hairy is because I haven an SAE. However, I had this algae even before I had an SAE.

Its characteristics are that it is black and will not rub off. Only bleach has a chance of removing it, and sometimes bleach doesn't even work.

It is very persistent but I really need to eradicate this. I don't want to bleach every two months for obvious reasons.

Someone said that lack of CO2 is definitely the problem where BBA is concerned. I am doubtful because I have tried DIY CO2 and the tank is pretty well-stocked with low-light plants. There shouldn't be a lack of CO2. Phosphates are 0. Nitrates are 10.

I just don't get it. I'm about to buy a new tank and take a hammer to this tank and burn everything that was in it. With my luck, the fish would still carry spores to the new tank.

The stuff likes light, that I do know. My brown algae and my BBA do not grow where there is no light, even if we're just talking about some shade from other plant leaves. I've never heard of a blackout for BBA, but I want to try that.

But IS this BBA? The more I'm not sure of what I'm dealing with, the more complicated this is getting.

Thanks, Laskey
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bash
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Joined: 01 Apr 2005

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)20:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

what size tank? how much lighting? its very hard to tell from that pic. but you should read this
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ebuddendo/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm
according to this your phosphates are low these can vary though depending on your set up if its low light than IME I keep phosphates low but not 0. in a high light tank you need to keep your phosphates in equal portions to nitrates 20-1. in high light tank you absolutly need co2 though or all you will grow is algae
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Plantbrain
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Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: The swamp

PostPosted: 2005.05.04(Wed)20:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, Redfield ratios play no role, ratios in general don't.
The ratio of most averaged NRazz for freshwater planmts is about 10:1, redfield, which is for specifically Marine phytoplankton is 16:1.

Plants need more PO4.

But our tanks are easy to limit or add excess etc.
I can have a ratio of 5ppm of NO3 and 2ppm of PO4 and I can have 20ppm of NO3 and 0.2ppm of PO4 and in both cases have excellent growth of plants as long as these ratios are maintained.

The reality is that these ratios change through time and dsoing routines and are very robust.

Don't get hung up on ratios, they help to not waste as much KNO3/KH2PO4 etc, but they don't help you beat algae except prevent GS(PO4) or BGA(NO3) and in both cases due to a deficieny(not enough of each nutrient)

Regards,
Tom Barr


3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!
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Raggamuffin
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)6:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you do have BBA, I wouldn't go the black out method. my tank just emerged from four days of pitch black still with a ton of BBA. I think that probably the most effective short term solution to defeating BBA is direct application of H2O2 (although I'm yet to try it myself). here is a good (illustrated) link on how to do it if you don't already know.

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html

another person posted somewhere here about excess nitratre causeing BBA. dunno about that personally tho.

If you do have BBA, you're in for a fight... good luck! and keep us posted!
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Laskey
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Northern Germany

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)6:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but I have ruled out hydrogen peroxide. For one thing, I don't have the hairy stuff like that guy had. Just the rough black spots. This is removed by bleach in most cases. If it won't come off of a plant, I'll throw the plant away.

In my experience with hydrogen peroxide before, it killed every plant I used it on. However I didn't apply it within the aquarium. I took the plants out and applied the H2O2. I won't put H2O2 in my aquarium because I refuse to risk killing my fish. That site talks about minimizing fish fatalities. I want NO fish fatalities; I don't even want to so much as make my fish uncomfortable!

For now I'm going to bleach the plants again and do huge water changes very often (maybe even daily, if my back won't give out). I can look into finding a way to add PO4.

This is a low-light tank - 1.3 wpg. I'm not going to make a DIY hood and increase my lighting, I'm sorry but that just isn't going to happen. Not to be stubborn, but I'm just not at all good with handyman projects even with excellent instructions, and I don't even have any tools besides a hammer and some screwdrivers. I had a low-light tank without BBA before so I know that it can be done. I only have low-light plants so increasing lighting isn't necessary for them to grow. The answer has to factor in that my lighting isn't going to change. If we're talking about balances between factors, then the balance is going to have to keep lighting as a constant.

This BBA, or whatever it is, does like light, like I said. It seems like a blackout might do some good, after I've bleached everything and have done a huge water change. The fact that a blackout didn't work for you tells me either that my algae isn't BBA but some unidentified but equally tough algae, OR, that the BBA that was left in your tank was mostly dead BBA, and/or that the blackout needs to be for a longer duration to make sure that all spores are killed.

If even more of a certain kind of plant would do better at combating BBA, then I can swap some of my plants for the ones I know which are faster-growing in my lighting. Sagittaria pusilla and cabomba caroliniana really grow fast in my tank. Adding more of them or switching other plants with more of those are an idea I have, although I don't like the idea of giving up variety.

Well, now I have some ideas. Thanks guys! Laskey
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untitled
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Location: London, UK.

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)8:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the same kind of algae a while ago, it grew on my anubias in a CO2 enriched tank and it was the only algae I had, so I doubt it has anything to do with CO2. I don't know how it's called though. From my experience, whatever algae it is, it grows on low-light plants when they get too much light. I bleached my anubias several times and it grew back until I moved it to a tank with much less light and I've not seen that stuff again since.
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Laskey
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Northern Germany

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)8:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

untitled wrote:
I've had the same kind of algae a while ago, it grew on my anubias in a CO2 enriched tank and it was the only algae I had, so I doubt it has anything to do with CO2. I don't know how it's called though. From my experience, whatever algae it is, it grows on low-light plants when they get too much light. I bleached my anubias several times and it grew back until I moved it to a tank with much less light and I've not seen that stuff again since.


Very interesting. Thank you! As part of my plan, I'll see what less light will do (fewer hours per day). After I've killed some more of the BBA!

I just tried to go to the store, forgetting it was a holiday... But I want one of those hose kits that connect to a sink and help you clean your tank. And use it every day for a while, and maybe try a blackout too. I assume that it will connect to a sink faucet and I don't have to do anything "handy". Anyone mind telling me if is this right?

Laskey
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untitled
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Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Location: London, UK.

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)10:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that those hose kits are called Python, but I haven't ever used one myself. You don't say (or at least I don't seem to find where you say it...) what size of tank you have and how much W of lights. I don't think it has anything to do with how long the lights are on but rather how strong they are. The lights in the tank the anubias is now in are longer than the tank it used to be in, but still, no algae there. I also assume it doesn't have to do much with excess of nutrients in the water as I use R/O water and add everything back, so I shouldn't have excess of nutrients in the tank (and indeed, that was all the algae I had once I got my nutrients right). In my experience this only happens to slow growing plants under intense light...
Hope this helps.
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Laskey
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Northern Germany

PostPosted: 2005.05.05(Thu)12:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

untitled wrote:
I think that those hose kits are called Python, but I haven't ever used one myself. You don't say (or at least I don't seem to find where you say it...) what size of tank you have and how much W of lights. I don't think it has anything to do with how long the lights are on but rather how strong they are. The lights in the tank the anubias is now in are longer than the tank it used to be in, but still, no algae there. I also assume it doesn't have to do much with excess of nutrients in the water as I use R/O water and add everything back, so I shouldn't have excess of nutrients in the tank (and indeed, that was all the algae I had once I got my nutrients right). In my experience this only happens to slow growing plants under intense light...
Hope this helps.


I did say I have about 1.3 watts per gallon, so... Anyway that would be 40 watts in a 29-gallon tank; how much water I have in it has to do with watts per gallon, but I usually keep it as full as I can. In any case, this is not a high-light tank. Thanks for the help, I'm still going to try fewer lighting hours per day and see if it helps. The lighting and tank size has never changed. For a long time there was no algae at all.
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Laskey
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Location: Northern Germany

PostPosted: 2005.05.10(Tue)10:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy at the LFS says he thinks it is very tough green algae. He wanted to give me faster growing plants, but he also said that 40-watts in a 29-gallon is NOT low-light, so he wanted to give me high-lighting plants. Uhhh, no, they will die, I've tried them before, even with ferts and CO2!

But I am now reducing the number of hours my lighting is on to see how that works out. So far there is no algae on my white gravel, which is where I would see it first. If this could really be some kind of very tough green algae that can be managed with reduced lighting, I will be quite happy. I just couldn't figure out what kind of algae it was in the first place. I see someone else posted about "black stuff" on their plants that went away after a lighting blackout, and then his water turned *green* (like my algae did when I bleached it), and after another day of blackout, all was crystal clear.

Thanks for the insights! Will post back if I notice anything new, positive or negative! Laskey
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