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LED help!
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Dukagora
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Joined: 03 Jul 2011

PostPosted: 2011.07.03(Sun)21:49    Post subject: LED help! Reply with quote

Hello all,

I have a 20 gallon tall tank with 5 glowlight's, 5 glofish, and 2 Emerald Corydoras in it.

For plants, I have Hornwort, Javamoss, moneywort, and one struggling from Petsmart Javafern. They have all been "planted" as of a day and a half. Except the Java moss. It is currently at about 1 hour as of this post.

I attached the Javafern and hornwort to a piece of driftwood that is currently browning my water which I don't like but can handle since it looks fine lit up.

The Javamoss is attached to a backyard rock O_O.

I have a CO2 system from Nutrafin. Link =)

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Hagen-Nutrafin-CO2-Natural-Plant-System

THe CO2 has been set up for maybe 4 hours.

Now to my LED information which concerns me. I'm quite curious however to see if based on the information provided, it will be what concerns others who read this =).

Marineland LED light.

http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/Detail.aspx?id=3384

The box shows it being a blue spectrum focused light with some green and yellow.

What I WANTED was the T5 lights but they were notably more costly.

Do you think that these plants have a chance at good, reasonable growth given the information provided?

What water info I can give results for:

pH: 7.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitries: .25
Nitrates: 20

I can't find my API color chart for the tests so these #'s are a guess...except the pH. Done it far too many times =).

The Nitrate is a dark orange.
Nitrite is a faint purple. Looks like I should do a partial water change.

We just moved a week ago. Shame on me for assuming all was well!

At any rate, I am concerned that the LED's arent producing enough light or arent doing something else that they should be doing. I am very much new to this planted thing!

Granted its only been 2 days, but the tank just doesn't look as bright as I would have expected!

I stuck an old T12 on the tank with the LED light and with that on it looked really bright.

Overall feedback is much appreciated. I do have Aqueon brand Aquarium Plant Food.

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/aquarium-plant-food.htm

I like links =). No confusion Wink

I apologize for this being so long winded.
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bignellm
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2011.07.06(Wed)20:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall, I would say it could help to have some more information. With it being a 20 gallon, I'm assuming the specs are 300 lumens.

This could be a minor concern, if your tank is a deep one, as more light would be refracted from the water. I would take a look at this link:
http://e0.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=lightingforaquariumplants
Look under Lumens and Kelvin rating.

As for your plants, I have some Moneywort myself. It seems hardy under my T5 lighting. I use a full spectrum light by Aqueon, but GE also sells a way cheaper bulb that is comparable. I also purchased a tube from Petco, which is a Peacock Fern. Turns out loads of plants in the tubes are semi aquatic plants, which may or may not do well. I'd give it time to see. For a hyper fast growing plant in my fresh water aquarium, I found Fox Tail (Myrio Filgree) It literally grows 1" a day for me. In a month, I will have 4 new plant stalks of it.
http://ww60.dokobobo.info/myriophyllum-simulans-filigree-myrio
A really nice plant, that I find when combined with Amazon Sword, that fry absolutely love to hide in. Another decent growing and hardy species seems to be PennyWort. If it breaks, it will continue growing while floating at top of tank. Good for fish to hang out at, to hide from bright lights. I thought about trying Javafern, but don't have any experience with it. Also, if you use Myrio, keep in mind while disposing of clippings that most states consider it invasive species.

10 Hours a day for lighting will probably help. Though, your LED's might not be producing the right spectrum for your plants.
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Dukagora
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Joined: 03 Jul 2011

PostPosted: 2011.07.07(Thu)1:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well right away some of what these articles are saying, it sounds like the red spectrum is most important for planted tanks. The box showed heavier in blue with only light to moderate yellow and red spectrum.
I ended up taking the Marineland unit back in favor of T5 lights. Hopefully the plants will hang in there for another weekish until I get paid =(.

This is the unit I was strongly considering!

http://www.aquatraders.com/24-inch-4x24W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52303.htm

The main things to remember when deciding which lighting to use are that the lighting needs to be of the right color spectrum for plant growth. A really bright light may not be beneficial to the plants if there is not enough light from the red spectrum reaching them. I would always use tubes that have a kelvin rating below 10,000K, marine tubes will be sold at 20,000K for the blue spectrum.

This leads me to believe that for my goals, the red spectrum is my friend=).

What specs Marineland gives are on the website for the LED.




.06 watt White LEDS -51 total watts


.06 watt Blue LEDs - 3 total watts


Lumens - 300

As for the spectrum, well its a visual graph. No actual Kelvin rating on it at all that I saw.


Ha... in googling info for the spectrum....I came accross this Marineland staff response....

Question:
does this light promote live plant growth Interested in buying one but do not want to kill my plants

I have large brazillian swords in my tank have had them for years now don't want to kill them


Aquarium Type: Freshwater

Aquarium Size: Mid-Size (20-60g)



Staff answer:
You should reference our charts for the appropriate PAR/LUX values on our website. I wouldn't recommend the Single Bright LED for plants, really should be the Reef Capable version. The Double Bright LED's can be used for some plants with lower light requirements.

Sigh......don't let a pet store sell you on something.....=(

Anyway thanks for the feedback! and the link. If it werent almost 1 am Id dig in to all of the links....another time =)

If you have some time, let me know what you think about what I would have blown more money on....good investment?
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bignellm
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2011.07.07(Thu)12:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks decent. One of the most important things to consider with the florescent is the spectrum of lighting. GE sells tubes that fit these units and is designed for aquariums. It costs less than Aqueon or other pet store brands. I think you have a good handle now on your plants needs. Red spectrum is highly important. Light tubes labeled Plants or For Aquarium Plants.

Although if looking for a deal on that unit, try amazon.. you could find a retailer there trying to liquidate their inventory Wink
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=24%22+Aquarium+T5+Light+Fixture&x=0&y=0#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=24+Inch+Aquarium+T5+Light+Fixture&rh=n%3A1055398%2Ck%3A24+Inch+Aquarium+T5+Light+Fixture
Saw a lot of different models there.. prices vary wildly.

Something you could try in meantime, till you buy a replacement unit, is relocate your aquarium temporary near a window that receives lots of natural light. If it's a feasible option for you. Aquariums can be a pain to move...
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Dukagora
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Joined: 03 Jul 2011

PostPosted: 2011.07.07(Thu)13:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have lighting on it, but its only 20 watts with a spectrum that might be useless due to age.

I guess what I don't understand is how the more experienced aquatic plant owners know what is a good buy and what isnt. Is it based on brand, what you read about the specs. How is a decent light unit being decided? What factors are coming in to play I guess?
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Dukagora
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Joined: 03 Jul 2011

PostPosted: 2011.07.07(Thu)13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, is this info for the lightbulbs enough to tell you what it produces in terms of blue/red etc?

2x 24W T5 HO lamps 10000K A quick googles sounds to me like they are blue spectrum

2x 24W T5 HO lamps Actinic Blue This is...well blue...?

If I am right, if I ordered this I would have light bulbs heavy on blue correct? I assume normally you can tell what spectrum because you have the bulb in packaging in front of you. In this case since we don't, Is there any other way then what I did to know for sure?

Am I overthinking/obsessing like I always do?
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bignellm
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2011.07.08(Fri)9:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be a little over thinking. But it is important to know why it'll work or not.
Found these links:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=414
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=395
Possibly good information--he kinda sounds like a prick though
http://www.rexgrigg.com/light.html
Q&A Section at bottom here is good:
http://e1.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=aquariumlighting
Bulb Link:
http://www.discountedpetproducts.net/24W_24_10000K_SLIMPAQ_T5_HO_NOVA_REPLACEMENT_LAMP-UKP48144.html

From what I've gathered about 10000k (kelvin bulbs) is that it will be a bright white light. I don't even know the k rating on mine, but from the color and brightness, I'd guess around 10000k as well. They usually include such a bulb to normalize the light, when using red or blue light tinted bulbs in a tank.

As for the tinted color bulbs, that's just a bulb that will intensify those colors in your tank. Blue will accent blue fish, red will accent red fish. For our viewing pleasure only (warm and cool hues--same concept as when you adjust images on computer).
As for what you get with your new hood light: that's kinda a mystery until you actually get the product. The good news is you can get a good and cheap GE bulb that will fit the hood for aquariums and plants from the hardware store or hardware department of local Walmart if the bulb that comes is inadequate for use. $3-5 per bulb is average price I've been seeing.

When deciding on a bulb, important factor is what you see on package. Key phrases like Full spectrum and Plants.

I am by no means an expert on this subject. I just seem to have a really green thumb with plants. My intuition on the subject. It's kinda weird to me on how I just kinda have this sense about plants.

On the branding issue, I never trust any brand. That's just marketing schemes. I look for feedback, warranty terms, and specs.

I would say the 10000k white light would be OK, especially if it states full spectrum and/or Plants on it.
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bignellm
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2011.07.08(Fri)11:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, just blinded myself out of laziness, LOL. I have the 15W 8000k full spectrum light by Aqueon.
The only plant in this set up struggling, seems to be the Water Wisteria. That is probably because of my wattage. Apparently that plant eats tons of iron, and needs 2-3 watts per gallon and over 10000k. My straggler may also be suffering from Iron deficiency, so I'm off to the Local Pet Shop for a free test.
My other plants seem to be thriving, especially the Myrio Filgree. Those plants have almost topped my tank.
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Dukagora
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Joined: 03 Jul 2011

PostPosted: 2011.07.13(Wed)21:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am not getting those lights from aquatrader. My interactions with them have gone poorly so far. So much so that I think it is a sign I shouldnt purchase from there.

I'm gonna get these. They look really nice.

https://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/checkout/modify_cart.cfm
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bignellm
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Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2011.07.13(Wed)21:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cannot comment, your URL is directly to your cart and it's not my cart. I get an empty cart view. Your probably right on not buying from them, anyone that axes service for sales should lose customers.
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