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Clear lesion on side of M. kubotai
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unissuh
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2010.11.22(Mon)3:56    Post subject: Clear lesion on side of M. kubotai Reply with quote

I noticed this funny clear splodge on the side of one of my M. kubotai a couple of days ago:


The gelatinous looking patch just posterior of the gill flap.

Another angle


Other side - theres also a tiny blotch on this side slightly lower down, but this is mostly what a normal side looks like


Has a bit of a reddish tinge when in water (crappy picture)


I think it's a male. Acts mostly normally although is a bit of a loner at times. Eats fine, waters probably fine considering the colony is popping out babies constantly - 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphate, 1.5 dGH, 0.5 dKH, pH 7. Typically 10% changes a day, maybe 30% once a week right now, straight Prime dose and tip in. No real history of disease at all in this tank, but have had one fish vanish mysteriously a month ago or so.

Anyone have a clue what it is, whether it's harmful and what sort of treatment is required (if any)? Have separated it into a quarantine bucket for now.
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unissuh
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2010.11.24(Wed)5:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mm, just for posteriority - put it down & had a closer look. Nothing obvious under the microscope; did a couple quick sections and stains and no really obvious inflammation or infection but then again, I'm not familiar with piscine pathology. Probably going to remain inconclusive, just hope it doesn't pop up again.
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2010.11.24(Wed)6:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have been an air bubble?
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unissuh
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2010.11.24(Wed)6:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think so, I did cryosections (due to convenience, not sure how much you know about this) so the morphology of the tissue was pretty crap, but a bubble that big should've been pretty obvious. I'm basing "normal" on comparing the side with the lesion to the other mostly unmarked side & it looked the same. Will have another look tomorrow after the coatings set & see if I can take a picture. Found some pictures of various granulomas etc in fish, looks a bit different to the mammalian histology that I'm used to.
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Caton
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Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Location: Washington State, USA

PostPosted: 2010.11.24(Wed)11:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these wild-caught? It could have been some weird thing that isn't in captivity often. But what do I know? You were performing tests...I always think "Well...there another one down because of a parasite or fungus..."
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the KOZ
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: portland oregon

PostPosted: 2011.01.16(Sun)8:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you should have just quarantined the fish and observed it instead of being so quick to destroy it and finding nothing.OBSERVATION is one of our best tools and one to often overlooked.If your photo's had more detail I could most like tell you what it might have been.But without the fish in hand I could only be 60% sure.plus not knowing your skill level in performing both biopsy or slide mounts you could have missed something.
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2011.01.16(Sun)9:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

the KOZ wrote:
Perhaps you should have just quarantined the fish and observed it instead of being so quick to destroy it and finding nothing.OBSERVATION is one of our best tools and one to often overlooked.If your photo's had more detail I could most like tell you what it might have been.But without the fish in hand I could only be 60% sure.plus not knowing your skill level in performing both biopsy or slide mounts you could have missed something.


But quarantining this fish of a shoaling species would have subjected it to undue stress.
It had been observed in the tank and as part of a breeding colony it could not stay in situ. Keeping this fish alive in solitary confinement would have been cruel.

Therefore euthanasia and a necropsy was kinder to this fish and better for the potential health of the remaining fish (which have shown no signs of this bleb in the six weeks since the samples were taken).

It was not destroyed to save money or for convenience but because it was the best option available.
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unissuh
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2011.01.16(Sun)17:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have processed, embedded, mounted, cut, stained and graded hundreds of tissue samples before, this is a major part of my work. The caveat is they were all mammalian samples so where I fall short is probably in the grading. Chances are that I did miss something, I find it strange I did not see any major artifacts like abscesses, granulomas, inflammatory cells etc when there was such an obvious lesion present. I am absolutely sure I took at least 4-5 sections through the middle of the lesion. I have since gotten a vet to have a peek at the slides - he hasn't noted anything either.

diademhill is absolutely correct about the reasoning I went through before performing euthanasia and necropsy - I don't enjoy putting down animals but it was the best option for the shoal.
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