Posted: 2010.10.14(Thu)13:22 Post subject: Tetra Fungus Guard Tabs
I originally purchased the Tetra Fungus Guard Tabs for my sick Angelfish because it had a bacterial infection (the box said it treats both fungal and bacterial infections). I followed the directions and did one dose, but it had no affect on the infection. After 4 days and a water change (like the directions stated), I did a second dose. Two days after I did the second dose, the Angelfish was dead and two of my other fish were infected. A day or two later those fish died and several more became infected. I reinserted my carbon because I had noticed that the plants were beginning to die, and I figured it was due to lack of light since the water was tinted. The next day the green in the water had been pulled out; however, I was shocked to see that my tank looked as if a nuclear bomb had gone off in it. There was a hazy film in the water (I still cannot get rid of it), and over half of my Vallisnerias had been wiped out (literally fried). I trimmed all of the dead growth on the remaining Vals that day. Tonight what I am left after using Tetra Fungus Tabs is the following: 1/4 of my beautiful Val "jungle" and they are in terrible condition, my Java Fern has several dead leaves, half of my fish have a fungal/bacterial disease and 1/2 of those fish, now have a parasite (they are rubbing up against objects), last but not least my entire gravel bed has been bleached. I know that the box stated that it may bleach decorations, but I did not realize that meant gravel. I e-mailed the Tetra company a day ago, and I have not seen a reply.
Right now, I am treating the fish with Jungle Labs Medicated Food, but I fear that I may have to strip most of my aquarium down and practically start over. I am very upset and disappointed with Tetra. _________________ ConvectiveWeather: www.convectiveweather.com
OK now evey body please listen these pills are of to low a dose to do anything really they are a waste of money.Do not buy them get real meds.Also don't go by brand names alone look what they contain. Also eritromicin is not as effective as it once was pathogens have adapted to it
tetracycline , amoxicillin and pure metronidazole power are effective treatments in most mild out breaks but for really bad only injectables work.
and water changes water changes and more water changes. _________________ Even experts make the simplest sometimes dumb mistakes.Learn from them.
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: 2011.01.14(Fri)23:38 Post subject:
Have to say I disagree completely with your philosophy of throwing in what are considered front line antibiotics for every mild infection that happens. People willy nilly throwing antibiotics around like this with no idea of what sort of dose and regime they are meant to follow are part of the reason why drugs like erythromycin are no longer as effective as they once were.
Incidentally, none of these antibiotics are commonly used for fungal infections at all, they are all anti-bacterial drugs. _________________ Fishing in the Rivers of Light
LOL okay here it is firing back with both barrels okay first of all never said just add any dose.read the fracking package.
Also if you knew anything about ichthyology,pathogens and there live cycle and human marketing.You might realize that to low a dose does not kill all of it and helps it to adapt. Using med's that do not work make the companies money cause you to buy more of the same med's to cure it still or other none affective brands they or others sell. Your LFS who will gladly sell you both the meds and the new fish you will soon buy because yours died due to the fact you did not treat them with the right med's for the right symptoms .It's about responsible use treatment and disposal.not dump it in set it and forget it.Using the right meds,dose and doing full treatments kills the pathogen in or on the fish and disposal of water and carbon as to not release it in to the environment is as important as treating the fish.General cures are not as effective as pinpoint treatments and the fish gets stressed and often poisoned by what else the meds contain that the fish dose not need.In other words meds that are not needed become a toxic bath.
(Incidentally, none of these antibiotics are commonly used for fungal infections at all, they are all anti-bacterial drugs)
once again let me school you!!
even a lot of what are called fungal drugs are in-fact anti bacterial drugs.
Why because A wide variety of other disease's are often mistaken for fungal infections,probably because many diseases can superficially mimic such an infection.In addition fungi are common as a secondary invaders of wounds and people only treat what they see.
So you see fungus on your fish. But the fungus is attacking the dead tissue caused by an ulcer the ulcer is caused by a bacterial infection that started as a wound an attack by another fish or bad water conditions that caused rubbing and loss of fish's slime coat it's first line of defense against pathogens.So you treat the the fungal infection and your fish still dies.Why cause you only treated the secondary infection.Not the primary infection or the initial cause.So let's say you do treat with the right med's and kill off the primary infection a bacteria called Aermonas or Vibrio which you recognize as a common cause of ulcerations and septicemia the infection heals no more dead flesh so the secondary infection dies back due to the anti-bacterial med's doing there job boosting the immune system of the fish.Now that's if you did not waste to much time and the fungus did not start to infect living tissue if it did you now have to treat it as a primary infection as well.Or dead fish in the end too.NOW you due all of these steps but do not do anything about the initial cause like water changes or taking care of that fish bully well you would be at step 1 again treating your fish.if it is still alive from all the stress you did not address form the initial cause.
Also because treatment of fungus infections can be very difficult due to the fact fungi are not plants and possess many metabolic pathways that fish and other animals have.Targeting fungi can kill the fish as well as the fungus.Also parasites can resemble patches of fungus like Epitsylis It's a protozoan. Mouth,fin rot is often described as a fungal infection.This is often not the case but due to bacterial infection with the cytophaga-like bacteria such as the dreaded flex or flexibacter columnaris mucus production that's excessive can look fungus like.
Now am not saying there are no cases of stand alone fungus infection there are like ichthyophoniasis a fungus that can be transmitted buy eating spores found in dead fish rotten food the like. That's one reason it's important to remove dead, dieing fish and uneaten food.
Also why you need to observe your tank and the symptoms of ill fish.
also in closing cause I could go on but am hungry and tired.Mild or early infections of any kind may occasionally respond to these over the counter treatments but for advanced bacterial or fungi infections these products are of little use and only injectable treatments or power-full antibiotic's are of any real benefit if possible
size of fish and all.That's why I give my fish and the disease a power-full punch using real drugs for the full time prescribed at vet and professional dosages.I would also like to add that I often use meth blue with these drugs or on very early signs alone on infections.Like on cloudy eye were the meth blue can penetrate into the eye membrane.
there a many other treatments I do use and if you like I would be glad to explain more. Like treating with topical antibiotic's
Or parasite,protozoan,viral infections cause and treatment.
Just ask. _________________ Even experts make the simplest sometimes dumb mistakes.Learn from them.
Last edited by the KOZ on 2011.01.16(Sun)11:24; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: 2011.01.15(Sat)23:18 Post subject:
Thank you for the lesson, I do realize that many "fungal" infections are actually bacterial & that many anti-fungals are anti-bacterial. Regardless, amoxicillin & tetracycline are pure anti-bacterial drugs. I happen to work in medical research.
What I argue with is you are essentially saying to just go for a course of anti-bacterial treatments without actually knowing what the problem is. Fungal or protozoan infections alone are not that uncommon and throwing in something like amoxicillin/tetracycline will not help and may actually exacerbate the problem. It is very common in both human and animal health fields to prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic for any sign of infection without really testing what the pathogen is like you do. It may work but I don't think this is particularly good practice & that it will probably have to change sooner or later to actually doing the tests to figure out what it is because this frequent use does and has led to resistance.
Incidentally, metronidazole is a pretty good example of an anti-bacterial that also has anti-fungal effects. What you may not know is that this antibiotic is better off & more commonly used in conjunction with other antibiotics and also that it has maximal effects on anaerobic infections, particularly in the gut I.e. best works when ingested. Not really the type of antibiotic I'd be putting in the water (aerobic environment) like you say, it doesn't work as well as it should.
In the case of this thread the OP hasn't really said what sort of infection there is, yet the first thing you say is to throw in a antibiotic. If it was clearer exactly what the ailment is - e.g. columnaris, some sort of dropsy (I don't see how you can diagnose a Vibrio or Aeromonas infection without some sort of pathology testing) then an antibiotic course is justified...as long as you know what you are treating and treat appropriately. If it is a mild infection & the deaths are due to, for example, the biological filter crashing from the medication, I still fail to see how dosing antibiotics will help in the slightest.
I would probably do what Nik has suggested. Clear the stuff out of the tank with some large scale water changes and carbon, then reassess what the problem is and redose with an appropriate medication. Mixing medications is generally a bad idea. _________________ Fishing in the Rivers of Light
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