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A cool new stocking calculator with a difference!
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Pavlos
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Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)15:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to juwel site right now and I look the filters... bioflow 6.0 can handle 6L of bioload? I think is very small number...

the LFS guy told me to change the pump and the sponges in the filter and put 2 liter of sera siporax to have 68L of bioload and flow rate of 1500L/h to have more water movement in the tank... but I am going to open a new topic later about this Laughing
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Shai
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Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Location: Calgary, AB

PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)19:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great project. Kudos for striving for something that looks beyond the outdated "inches of fish" "rule".

Aplocheilus lineatus is listed simply as "Golden Killifish", but many people will know it more as Golden Wonder Killifish. It is also called Striped Panchax Killifish.

You've double-listed the Hagen AquaClears. The AquaClear 20 is the old AquaClear Mini; 30 is the old 150; 50 is the old 200; 70 is the old 300; and 110 is the old 500. Since persons with older equipment may not know their filter by the new name, consider shortening your list by showing the old name in brackets beside the new one.

An option to add additional filters or other equipment would be nice. For example, I have three AC 70s on my 55g tank but the site only allows two filters to be listed, so I can't properly test your program using my aquarium as a model.

A "Clear All" or "Start Over" button would be good.

"Intelligent Online Aquarium Stocking Calculator"--this should probably say "Intelligent Online Freshwater Aquarium Stocking Calculator" so that saltwater hobbyists are clear from the start it's not for them.

How would a user with a sump use this calculator?

In my 4' 55g, I am currently keeping Puntius denisonii (another fish that has several other common names that aren't listed). Having kept them now as adults, I believe they really need at least a 6' tank to be truly comfortable. Mine are doing okay but due to how active these fish are I think 4' is just not long enough for them to "stretch their fins". While perhaps not a requirement for their care, a 6' tank should definitely (IMO) be a displayed recommendation/warning, since it seems you are taking footprint into consideration. (These fish are just recently becoming more widely available, so erring on the side of caution with a warning like that wouldn't hurt.)

I ran a test using my 55g as a base model (not an exact reflection) and specified two AC70s, with this result:
Quote:
Recommended temperature range: 24 - 25 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 6.8 - 7.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 12 dH.

No errors.

You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 122%.
Recommended water change schedule: 35% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 107%. [Generate Image] [What's this?]

My tank also has an average number of live plants in it, but even so, I disagree with the recommendation that I only need to change 35% weekly. My stock includes German Blue Rams, which are sensitive fish that require pristine water. Thus, I change at least 50% per week. The temperature range given is also a tad low.

Source water is a factor that ought to be considered too. A person such as myself cannot easily consider soft water species because the water where I am is exceptionally hard, with high pH (8.0 from tap) and has high TDS (yet another reason I have to ensure pristine water for my rams). Getting into things like RO water would be too complicated/beyond the scope of the website... It would probably also be too complicated to add in fields for the user to specify their tap water readings (if people even knew them), so perhaps warnings about water quality could be displayed instead when certain species like GBRs are chosen, to help spur people into double-checking.

(Since I keep rams I obviously know it's not impossible to acclimatize soft water fish to harder conditions, but this is not something new/inexperienced hobbyists who are more likely to use a site such as this should really be trying to do.)

The output of my test says "Your aquarium stocking level is 107%".
  • Since you can't have more than 100% stocking, why does the result also say "No errors"? An overstocked tank should definitely be an error!
  • Does the result give no errors about the stocking because the filtration capacity is 122%? How would a new hobbyist understand this based on the displayed results? (Insufficient explanation.)
  • If "No errors" is meant to indicate the calculation completed successfully, this is not really something you should display to users. If there are results and the page loads successfully, obviously there were no query errors--you should only display something if the query goes wrong ("Uh oh...something bad happened. Please submit a bug report" or similar).
Having output the aforementioned result, I then changed "Filter2" to "None" (left everything else the same) and then clicked "Update", but the results did not change (no errors, 122% filtration, 107% stock). I had to click "Update" a second time for the results to amend themselves. Again, the results say "No errors" and the only warning is "Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!" Adding the second AC70 back in still required two clicks of "Update" to get new results. This is quite misleading!
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yhbae
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003

PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)19:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pavlos wrote:
I went to juwel site right now and I look the filters... bioflow 6.0 can handle 6L of bioload? I think is very small number...

the LFS guy told me to change the pump and the sponges in the filter and put 2 liter of sera siporax to have 68L of bioload and flow rate of 1500L/h to have more water movement in the tank... but I am going to open a new topic later about this Laughing


And let me know what is the outcome... I am getting a lot of request to add Juwel filters but I am at a loss as to where to begin as even their own site doesn't say much about their filters' capacity!
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Pavlos
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Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Location: Cyprus

PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)19:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

yhbae wrote:
Pavlos wrote:
I went to juwel site right now and I look the filters... bioflow 6.0 can handle 6L of bioload? I think is very small number...

the LFS guy told me to change the pump and the sponges in the filter and put 2 liter of sera siporax to have 68L of bioload and flow rate of 1500L/h to have more water movement in the tank... but I am going to open a new topic later about this Laughing


And let me know what is the outcome... I am getting a lot of request to add Juwel filters but I am at a loss as to where to begin as even their own site doesn't say much about their filters' capacity!


I think that some advisors in this forum can help you. Diademhill helps me a lot with my juwel filter Smile
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yhbae
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Joined: 03 Jul 2003

PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)19:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shai wrote:
Great project. Kudos for striving for something that looks beyond the outdated "inches of fish" "rule".


Yup, and I appreciate that you understand where my motivation comes from. Smile

Quote:

Aplocheilus lineatus is listed simply as "Golden Killifish", but many people will know it more as Golden Wonder Killifish. It is also called Striped Panchax Killifish.


Excellent. The app already features what I call "alias". Same scientific name but many different common names. I can simply add all these using your suggested common names.

Quote:

You've double-listed the Hagen AquaClears. The AquaClear 20 is the old AquaClear Mini; 30 is the old 150; 50 is the old 200; 70 is the old 300; and 110 is the old 500. Since persons with older equipment may not know their filter by the new name, consider shortening your list by showing the old name in brackets beside the new one.


Yes this one is debatable. I intentionally put them as separate items on the list because some may only know one and not the other. I personally have both versions of the same filters as some were purchased years ago. I'll consider your suggestion. Smile

Quote:

An option to add additional filters or other equipment would be nice. For example, I have three AC 70s on my 55g tank but the site only allows two filters to be listed, so I can't properly test your program using my aquarium as a model.


Yes this is now very frequently asked request. You are probably around 40 or 50th person to ask for it, so it is coming soon to near you. Razz

Quote:

A "Clear All" or "Start Over" button would be good.


There is a "hidden" feature - just click on the bug aqadvisor.com on the top left - this will reset everything. But you are right, I need to put this in more obvious place.

Quote:

"Intelligent Online Aquarium Stocking Calculator"--this should probably say "Intelligent Online Freshwater Aquarium Stocking Calculator" so that saltwater hobbyists are clear from the start it's not for them.


Fair comment.

Quote:

How would a user with a sump use this calculator?


Another common request but I'm not sure how to implement. How would you measure the filtration capacity of a sump? I'm open to suggestions.

Quote:

In my 4' 55g, I am currently keeping Puntius denisonii (another fish that has several other common names that aren't listed). Having kept them now as adults, I believe they really need at least a 6' tank to be truly comfortable. Mine are doing okay but due to how active these fish are I think 4' is just not long enough for them to "stretch their fins". While perhaps not a requirement for their care, a 6' tank should definitely (IMO) be a displayed recommendation/warning, since it seems you are taking footprint into consideration. (These fish are just recently becoming more widely available, so erring on the side of caution with a warning like that wouldn't hurt.)


No problem. I can change it to a 6ft tank but it does mean you are going from 48x12 tank to 60x18 which is a huge jump. Does that make sense?

Quote:

I ran a test using my 55g as a base model (not an exact reflection) and specified two AC70s, with this result:
Quote:
Recommended temperature range: 24 - 25 C. [Display in Farenheit]
Recommended pH range: 6.8 - 7.
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 12 dH.

No errors.

You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 122%.
Recommended water change schedule: 35% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 107%. [Generate Image] [What's this?]

My tank also has an average number of live plants in it, but even so, I disagree with the recommendation that I only need to change 35% weekly. My stock includes German Blue Rams, which are sensitive fish that require pristine water. Thus, I change at least 50% per week. The temperature range given is also a tad low.


I have another field attribute "water change factor". Normally water change amount is derived from total bioload but as you mentioned above, some species will be more sensitive than others so I created this attribute. I can boost this factor for Blue Rams.

But I do have to admit you are on the upper edge of maintaining your tank clean. Smile I've gotten quite a few opposite messages saying WC volumes are too high in some cases.

What would be your recommended range for the temperature? I would have thought those temps are OK for Rams. I personally kept spawning German Blue Rams in those temps before.

Quote:

Source water is a factor that ought to be considered too. A person such as myself cannot easily consider soft water species because the water where I am is exceptionally hard, with high pH (8.0 from tap) and has high TDS (yet another reason I have to ensure pristine water for my rams). Getting into things like RO water would be too complicated/beyond the scope of the website... It would probably also be too complicated to add in fields for the user to specify their tap water readings (if people even knew them), so perhaps warnings about water quality could be displayed instead when certain species like GBRs are chosen, to help spur people into double-checking. (Since I keep rams I obviously know it's not impossible to acclimatize soft water fish to harder conditions, but this is not something new/inexperienced hobbyists who are more likely to use a site such as this should really be trying to do.)


That might be the way to go. I have an attribute called "Notes" for each species and I use it to display any special warnings or precautionary notes.

Quote:

The output of my test says "Your aquarium stocking level is 107%".
  • Since you can't have more than 100% stocking, why does the result also say "No errors"? An overstocked tank should definitely be an error!


If you know what you are doing, you can still keep tanks at above 100% and will be OK. I've personally done it to myself, including some mbuna tanks. With enough filtration and water changes, it is certainly feasible. I just wanted users to know that they are at the limit or going beyond.

Quote:

  • Does the result give no errors about the stocking because the filtration capacity is 122%? How would a new hobbyist understand this based on the displayed results? (Insufficient explanation.)


  • Yes this is another common feedback I have been getting. They are not sure what I mean by "122%". I will add more descriptive text around it.

    Quote:

  • If "No errors" is meant to indicate the calculation completed successfully, this is not really something you should display to users. If there are results and the page loads successfully, obviously there were no query errors--you should only display something if the query goes wrong ("Uh oh...something bad happened. Please submit a bug report" or similar).Having output the aforementioned result, I then changed "Filter2" to "None" (left everything else the same) and then clicked "Update", but the results did not change (no errors, 122% filtration, 107% stock). I had to click "Update" a second time for the results to amend themselves. Again, the results say "No errors" and the only warning is "Warning: You NEED to add more aquarium filtration capacity!!!" Adding the second AC70 back in still required two clicks of "Update" to get new results. This is quite misleading!


  • Fair comments. I'll keep your comments and look at it again when it is time to refine that part of the app.

    Thanks for your comments! Smile
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    yhbae
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    Joined: 03 Jul 2003

    PostPosted: 2009.11.29(Sun)19:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Pavlos wrote:
    yhbae wrote:
    Pavlos wrote:
    I went to juwel site right now and I look the filters... bioflow 6.0 can handle 6L of bioload? I think is very small number...

    the LFS guy told me to change the pump and the sponges in the filter and put 2 liter of sera siporax to have 68L of bioload and flow rate of 1500L/h to have more water movement in the tank... but I am going to open a new topic later about this Laughing


    And let me know what is the outcome... I am getting a lot of request to add Juwel filters but I am at a loss as to where to begin as even their own site doesn't say much about their filters' capacity!


    I think that some advisors in this forum can help you. Diademhill helps me a lot with my juwel filter Smile


    It would also be helpful if someone knows what would be the equivalent out of common range of filters (say AquaClear series).
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    Pavlos
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    Joined: 01 Jul 2009
    Location: Cyprus

    PostPosted: 2009.11.30(Mon)12:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

    I put this filter : eheim 2224 and in the text box is writen 36gUS....

    in the internet I found this:
    The Eheim 2224 professional canister filter is the big brother of the 2222 professional canister filter. It has a slightly larger capacity and is suitable for use in aquariums of about 60-70 gallons. The pump output is 185 gallons per hour with the filter circulation of about 135 gallons per hour. The filter volume is about 1 gallon, and the filter consumes just 8 watts of electricity.
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    diademhill
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    Joined: 18 Apr 2007

    PostPosted: 2009.11.30(Mon)13:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

    All of the filters I tried gave inaccurate gallon results.

    Asd for the aquaclear series they are not available in europe so I have no idea how they compare.

    Eheim or Fluval would be better benchmarks.

    Filtration can be measured in varous ways, flow rate, media capacity, aeration all play a part.
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    yhbae
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    Joined: 03 Jul 2003

    PostPosted: 2009.11.30(Mon)15:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

    Pavlos wrote:
    I put this filter : eheim 2224 and in the text box is writen 36gUS....

    in the internet I found this:
    The Eheim 2224 professional canister filter is the big brother of the 2222 professional canister filter. It has a slightly larger capacity and is suitable for use in aquariums of about 60-70 gallons. The pump output is 185 gallons per hour with the filter circulation of about 135 gallons per hour. The filter volume is about 1 gallon, and the filter consumes just 8 watts of electricity.


    This is intentional. Currently, it uses 55% of the original number but I will increase it to 65% for the next build, though somewhat reluctantly. No one should run their filters at their manufacturer quoted level. Overfiltration is something that has been practiced for a long time. If you present your stock, your tank, and choice of filters, most experienced hobbyists will choose larger filters as long as your species can handle the current. And I still advise new hobbyists with this in mind when they choose their filters.

    At least that's how I feel. Smile
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    yhbae
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    Joined: 03 Jul 2003

    PostPosted: 2009.11.30(Mon)15:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

    diademhill wrote:
    All of the filters I tried gave inaccurate gallon results.

    Asd for the aquaclear series they are not available in europe so I have no idea how they compare.

    Eheim or Fluval would be better benchmarks.

    Filtration can be measured in varous ways, flow rate, media capacity, aeration all play a part.


    As explained in the previous post, it was intentional. My DB contains correct numbers but a fraction was taken to be more realistic. It is interesting to see such a varied response ranging from "just about right" to "your app is too harsh". For now, I'll use 65% instead. And perhaps display actual capacity just to remove confusion.

    What do you think? Smile
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