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What is best way
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mr.elcajon
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Joined: 20 Mar 2009

PostPosted: 2009.03.23(Mon)18:51    Post subject: What is best way Reply with quote

This post has been edited by moderation team to remove Upper Case Post. Please read forum rules, Upper case is used to designate shouting and this use was unacceptable.

So just out of experience what do you guys think is the best supplements to use to keep pH, Alkalinity, and Calcium where they should be. I have been using B-Ionic 2 part calcium alkalinity buffer. Anything better to use to keep these stable?

I also just started using a kent marine buffer to bring up my dKH.


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mr.elcajon
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PostPosted: 2009.03.27(Fri)16:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmon guys, really, can't get a little help here?
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Tigerissey
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Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: Lancashire - UK

PostPosted: 2009.03.27(Fri)17:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our marine forum is very small compared to other sites. It is probably that our marine experts have not yet logged on since you posted your message.
I have only just started in marine myself so am not in a position to help unfortunately. I am sure Florida boy or dusko just to name a few will stop by soon.
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mr.elcajon
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PostPosted: 2009.03.30(Mon)20:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya I see, what other fish forums sites are their that are bigger. do u know?
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2009.03.30(Mon)21:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those products are popular and will work, many use automated dosers and other gizmos to improve stability. As I said before, you really need to verify your strange test results before you can be properly advised. This is especially important, considering you recently had ammonia readings in that tank and other issues. Did you figure out what caused your sump to crash and/or stagnate?

Read this carefully:
I'm still waiting for a full description of your equipment; filtration, substrate type and depth, skimmer, list of livestock, etc. so I can properly advise you. I asked for this March 20, on your other thread here, but you never answered:
http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=54940

I try to look at causes vs. symptoms.
For example; if you are trying to keep a large fish population or a detritus clogged, 3 inch substrate in with your live corals, even the best buffers in the world can prove to be inefficient. From my blind viewpoint, you might have 100 lbs of live rock or you might have only 20 pounds, I cannot assume anything here. You need to provide a better description of your system.
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mr.elcajon
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Joined: 20 Mar 2009

PostPosted: 2009.04.04(Sat)0:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so heres the best description that I can give, I think, lol.

-72 gallon tank

-1 1/2 inch of sand subsrate

-70-85 lbs. of live rock

-Euro reef protien skimmer ( not sure actual size but plenty big)

-Micron filter bag for sump

-1 wavemaker pump

-LIVESTOCK- 1 brown tang, 1 clownfish, 1 blenny, 1 sand sifter, 1 madarin dragonette, 3 peppermint shrimp. xenia, mushrooms, starburst polyp, 1 ricordea mushroom, 1 sand starfish,
and hairy mushrooms

- 1/3 Hp chiller

-Lights- dual satellite 48 in. , dual daylight 6700k- 10000k
dual actinic 420n/m - 460 n/m
about ten hours of light


And I had everything tested by my LFS and by me again and all is OK.
But I'm curious to know how high the magnesium shoud be. I tested and it and its over 1280 ppm's, probably more like 1600 ppm's. also my calcium is a little high, 550 ppm's?!? Question
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MarkLehr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: 2009.04.04(Sat)6:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are running high on both calcium and magnesium, I'm curious why you would be adding Kent Marine Super Buffer to raise your DKH?

Are you trying to raise DKH because of a low pH reading? Or because of a low alkalinity test result?

For the record, magnesium occurs naturally at roughly 3x the level of calcium, which is what you are aiming for. I'm curious how your calcium levels have been raised to such an extreme level, given your magnesium levels. Remember, every test is in proportion to the next. The range is only applicable when compared to the other results.

You might find these articles helpful:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2002/chem.htm

There are additional links at the bottom of the article to other articles written by Randy Holmes Farley on the subject.
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mr.elcajon
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PostPosted: 2009.04.05(Sun)0:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Mark so heres how it started. I ran out of calcium tester, so I could no longer test for calcium. my LFS was on back order so it was a while before I got one. over that time period I think I added to much of my part 2 calcium buffer (B-ionic), resulting in a higher calcium levels. whell my live rock turned white( thats on a different forum). my LFS said I had to much calcium as my test results showed was true. creating precipitation of calcium in my tank. I've got that fixed now. but theni had some crazy ammonia spikes, and everything was off. well, from what my test said. my LFS tested it for me and had low DKH, thus the super buffer. I'm trying to figure out how to keep my calcium, DKh, and pH all where they should be. I'm almost back on track though. I'm just confused on what chemicals to use to keep these all in order.
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MarkLehr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: 2009.04.05(Sun)20:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are all turned around at the moment. Lets look at this.

The 2 part additive is intended to keep your DKH and Calcium levels in a set "ratio", for lack of a better word. If both are low, then you add both. If both are high, you do nothing.

The problem with these 2 part additives to what to do when one or the other is low. When calcium is low, you can simply add the liquid calcium part only, skipping the dose of the other part. When calcium is normal and DKH is low, now you have real issues. Read on...

You generally can not fix this problem by adding a buffer, including Kent Marine Super Buffer DKH. Adding this buffer will continue to increase calcium levels and cause a precipitate as the pH spikes with the dose. The same effect would probably occur with a Kalkwasser additive. Your problem most likely lies with magnesium, and you need to be testing and dosing magnesium separately. Or, if you prefer, a series of water changes can correct the problem.

Oddly enough, the use of Reef Crystals salt mix can compound this problem because they add additional borate to increase DKH. Unfortunately this gives a "false" sense of stability because the biggest DKH drivers in natural seawater are calcium and magnesium. I recommend Instant Ocean for reefs and Reef Crystals for FOWLR systems. Wink
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mr.elcajon
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Joined: 20 Mar 2009

PostPosted: 2009.04.06(Mon)4:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I understand the fact of what the two part buffer is for. figured it was simple thats why I used it. but the reason why I used the super buffer was because my LFS tested my water and they recommended that for five days or so, substituting that for the two part buffer. I'm just having trouble trying to keep everything balanced. now that I've got my mag and calcium about right my DKh has dropped and my nitrites and nitrates are up?!? Crying or Very sad I'm very confused. but idid some tests. heres the reults. let me know what u think. And if possible your best opinion on how to keep these all in balance.

Magnesium- 1290 ppm

calcium- 450 ppm

pH- 8.4

Dkh- 1.7 or 1.8 (1.7-.2.8 being normal) dropped from about 2.2

nitrite- scale on test is different from most. but saying out of 1-7. 7 being the worst. its about 4.

nitrate- same goes for the nitrate. about a 4. ( PRETTY BAD) don t get it

ammonia- low about .15
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