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I've learned my lesson well
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PhyRaNNuS
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2008.12.18(Thu)2:50    Post subject: I've learned my lesson well Reply with quote

I posted this to warn the beginners and also to remind all hobbyists that
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Mike612
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Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada

PostPosted: 2008.12.18(Thu)7:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

I'm also sorry to say that you should have consulted us about the livestock you wished to keep before purchasing them. One tang can some times be managed in a tank that size. Three tangs is a definate problem in a tank this size. Tangs need lots of swimming space, more than a four foot tank can provide. This will help reduce disease and territory issues. The large angels also do not belong in a tank this small. They can also become quite bold in a tank that size to the point that they might not only attack their tankmates, but also their aquarist's hand if they had the chance.

In an 80 gallon, you should be keeping smaller reef fish, such as cardinals, dartfish, gobies, and chromis.

Please do some water changes and continue to clean the tank before you decide to replace your fish. Research before making more purchases.


Last edited by Mike612 on 2008.12.18(Thu)17:27; edited 1 time in total
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2008.12.18(Thu)12:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that is a sad story, and you are not alone---many have had to learn these lessons the hard way. When I worked in the aquarium industry, I talked many buyers out of purchasing potential problem fish, but not all retailers operate this way. Some of them are happy to sell you ANYTHING, just to get it out of their tanks and prevent a loss on their bottom line.

PhyRaNNuS, please consult this forum before making all your purchases, we are here to help aquarists and save marine livestock. Set up that QT and get back on your horse.
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PhyRaNNuS
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2008.12.21(Sun)21:02    Post subject: Thank you.. Reply with quote

I really appreciates people in the hobby like Floridaboy and mike for taking time helping and guiding us beginners to succeed to this hobby. It's really worth dropping by to this site because this site is like a one stop shop when it comes to "proper" fishkeeping...
I'm sorry guys for my mistake and not following helpful tips on this site. Like what I have said, "I've learned my lesson well" I followed mike advice to change water before acquiring new fish.
I bought sets of fish now in replace to my dead fishes.
a pair of True Percula clown, (juviline)
a pair of Squirellfish (juvinile)
a pair of Hermit crab (cleaner)
a pair of Snail (cleaner)
1 Powder Brown Tang (I really love tang).
Comments Please...

Thank You Guys..

Be well, Swim well
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2008.12.22(Mon)0:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well my only concern is that you likely still have the white spot parasite also called marine ich (cryptocryon) in the display tank, and if so that is going to infect all your new arrivals. You should be allowing that display tank to run for 3 or 4 weeks with NO FISH in order to starve the parasite before adding more fish. Invertebrates are okay but no fish allowed for 3 or 4 weeks. Let me know if you need more info on this...
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PhyRaNNuS
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2008.12.22(Mon)19:48    Post subject: Another visitor Reply with quote

Well I guess you're right FB. I think I should send my new arrivals back to the lfs... I see another signs of white spot to powder brown tang (I think TANG are very susceptible to white spot) This tank is more likely back to zero. Rolling Eyes grrr.. I hate myself for destroying my stable tank before...Embarassed...
Theres another visitors in my tank... green hair algae... is this bad? they rapidly grew up after the lost of the my fishes.
-I made another 10% water change last night,
-The skimmer is running very well. (collecting waste effeciently)
-Wavemaker pump move water continuously.

Whats to do next?
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2008.12.22(Mon)23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove ALL THE FISH immediately. You will be using the STARVATION method of killing the parasite. As I mentioned before, You should be allowing that display tank to run for 3 or 4 weeks with NO FISH (this is called fallow) in order to starve the parasite before adding more fish. Invertebrates are okay but no fish allowed for 3 or 4 weeks. More below from my archives...


MARINE ICH (Cryptocaryon irritans)

Many have tried various psuedo cures for these pathogens, with various results, usually it subsides for a while only to return with a vengeance worse than before; the parasites reproduce in a cycle of various free-swimming and encysted stages and forms; trophonts, tomonts, tomites, theronts, etc., dropping into the substrate and then re-emerging in higher numbers. This lengthy cycle can take several weeks and confuses a lot of hobbyists, who may think they have solved the problem with a little salinity change or garlic, but the tale of woe is long for this industry-wide problem, and you need copper or starvation to be sure... that's right garlic lovers I said copper. I realize there are others who have dealt with cryptocaryon in other ways---I am only telling you what worked for me, and saved my own specimens as well as those I maintained for others in the industry.

If you have marine ich in a fish only system and no quarantine tank, you can treat the main tank with copper medication for marine aquarium fish, just follow the directions and make a 20 percent water change in advance. It's better not to treat the main tank if possible, but if you have no q-tank it's better than watching your fish get eaten alive---and believe me---if left unchecked, the parasites will eventually KILL EVERY ONE OF THEM.

If you have live rock or any invertebrates it gets more tricky; the copper will kill the inverts. I want to repeat, you must NEVER add copper to a tank with inverts. You will need to move ALL the fish to a quarantine system and treat them with copper there for 3-4 weeks. Even the fish which appear healthy must be removed. Lowering the specific gravity (salinity) in the QT to 1.018 will help but not required. While you are doing this, the trophonts in the display tank will starve (3-4 weeks minimum, no fish). You can leave hermits, shrimp, stars etc. in the display, but you need a biofilter in the q-tank during treatment and monitor daily for ammonia, and make water changes as required. It is also important to test the QT daily for correct copper levels, a copper test kit is required for this and be sure to follow the directions on the label of the copper you are using to the letter. For some larger fish systems with large fish, moving them all may be impractical, so you will need to plan accordingly and decide whether QT or treating the main fish display is a better COA. If you have too many fish for your QT, then you may need to enlist the help of your LFS, better ones will have a hospital tank running 24/7 and they may allow you to move a few fish in there if you are in a pinch (call and confirm before "showing up" with sick fish). Also, be advised some species (I. e. eels, puffers, moorish idols, etc.) are harmed by copper treatments so research your charges.

Properly administered freshwater dips have been used as a successful treatment of cryptocaryon for years with marine fish. The Colorni article from the 80's is well published, yet some aquatic-trade professionals still use the FW dips, not because they want to add additional stress to livestock, but because they have seen it to be helpful at fighting pathogens on thousands of fish. The osmotic shock kills some of the parasites but will usually not harm the fish. FW dips will kill more than just cryptocaryon too; including Amyloodinium and Turbellarian worms, flukes, etc. If you have a fish that is seriously covered in parasites and showing rapid breathing/distress, a freshwater dip may be a good idea and could be required to save its life. In theory, this treatment also helps prevent the spreading of parasites from one tank to another. Water should be the same pH (use a buffer if required) and temp as the aquarium water. It is important that you match temperature and pH, and also provide dissolved oxygen by adding an airstone to the dip container (please see the links below for details on correct procedure).

Adding Methylene Blue to the FW dip is a common practice and will help. A large dip net is used, and a second net is added to cover the fish and keep it from jumping out (very important). Dip time will vary, usually 3-5 minutes depending on the fish and how much stress it shows. Specimens need to be carefully monitored during the process, so turn off the television and do not leave them alone. If the fish appears a little uncomfortable in FW, this is normal, but if the fish shows obvious signs of panic or stress, return it to saltwater immediately. I have seen fish completely covered with ich (which I thought were going to die) respond very well to this; in some cases in less than 24 hours the fish appeared completely healed and showed no signs of parasites whatsoever. Please note; the FW treatments cannot be considered a complete "cure," as they will kill parasites on your fish, but do nothing to halt the thousands which are likely lurking in your infested aquarium! (that's where the starvation or copper come in). Keep in mind, only one cyst can divide into hundreds of additional parasites.

Dealing with ich can be daunting, but it can be defeated. Of course an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, please refer to my extensive writings on quarantine of all new arrivals.

More opinions for you here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bestcryptfaqs.htm
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PhyRaNNuS
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2009.01.15(Thu)1:25    Post subject: Tank in recovery Reply with quote

Thank you for all the info guys...especially to FB... after a month, my tank is in fully recovery from that disaster. Sad to say the 1 yo stripe damsel also died. I still have my Ocellaris Clown and newly acquired healhty fish...
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FloridaBoy
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2009.01.16(Fri)10:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear, keep an eye on it...
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