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Newbies First Tank Set Up Method, Very Easy!!
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RevZ
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007

PostPosted: 2007.12.31(Mon)19:10    Post subject: Newbies First Tank Set Up Method, Very Easy!! Reply with quote

I've tried this method, and yes the results are very pleasing to my eyes!!
This was done to my 2 footer

Equipment:
-Filter (I used a sponge Filter, don't know if it'll work on others)
-Barricade (preferbally one that floats as well as one that allows the tank water to enter in and out, so NO plastic containers)
-Apple/Mystery Snails (optional)
-Fish foods (e.g. Bloodworms, Algae Wafers, I used them, basically anything that will make the water cloudy)
-A Nice bag of gravel (preferbally in a netted bag, but stockings work nicely), don't SET THE GRAVEL ON THE BOTTOM OF TANK YET, LEAVE IT IN THE BAG, because if the food somehow falls to the bottom, you'll then hav 2 syphon it!, so don't trouble yerself.!!

This method is perfect if you haven't bought any fish yet.. If have, you just need to put them in a temporary tank.

Method:
Now first of all u fill up the tank to the desired water level, you can use conditioned water, but at the time I ran out, so I just used plain tap water.

Then you add in the barricade (the method won't work if the tank water cannot seep through the barricade),

then basically u throw in all the stuff that will make it cloud up in the barricade (fish food, bloodworms & Algae Wafers(are perfect for the job! Put enough to cloud that tank 24/7!, so I'm estimating 7 algae wafers, and 12 slots of the bloodworms, if they come in slots), And if you bought some snails (1 or 2 will do, get Apple/Mystery Snails because they won't infestate the tank while its cycling) and drop them in the barricade as well along with the bloodworms and wafers
Then from here you just sit back and relax. If the water clouds up don't PANIC, it's part of the method, don't clean the tank either!

Wait about a week, depending on how cloudy the water gets and how clear it gets everytime you check it, if you put a submergable heater at the back of the tank, wait until the water is so clear that you can read the meter. Mine took about 2 days. Laughing, wen you think the water is clear enough take out the barricade with the food (that's why you get a barricade , so it's less clean up for you!) and let the snails run free, while you go to the LFS and buy your desired fish!

NOTE!!

-Sponge filter works perfect for this, because good bacteria needs to grow in the sponge, by the way when cleaning the sponge DO NOT RINSE IN TAP WATER!!, just wash it a bit in the dirty water that you take out from the tank, if you clean it.
-the Bag of gravel is there, so that good bacteria can also grow there, it would be wise to put an airstone running in the bag, to give them air (that is if you want to leave the gravel in the bag, you can always set the gravel at the bottom of the tank, AFTER THE CYCLE!
-the snails are there just to make the cycle more efficient, by them eating the food in the barricade, they poo as well, so then the water can also cycle the animal excretion, also it's a good food source for the good bacteria
-a good fish to buy after this cycle is a nice small active SAE (Siamese Algae Eater, or also known as the siamese Flying Fox), they'll clean up any left overs that may have fell from the barricade,
-DO NOT TRY THIS METHOD WITH FISH IN THE TANK!!, They will DEFINITELY DIE!! unless you have some form of super fish!! Laughing

After I did this method all I had to do to maintain it, is replace a few scoops of water in the tank with conditioned water every month or more.. and maybe an occasional syphon to clean the poo at the bottom, considering I have no gravel on the bottom of my tank

Well hav fun newbies!!


Last edited by RevZ on 2008.01.01(Tue)17:23; edited 2 times in total
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)4:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very risky IMO.

Although some fish may survive being added with nitrites spiking most will not & those that do will suffer long term damage.

Not a method I could recommend. Although it is half way to a fishless cycle it misses the point of a fishless cycle which is to prevent any animal having to suffer.
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nikelodeon79
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)12:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, I see several problems with this method.

Quote:
don't SET THE GRAVEL ON THE BOTTOM OF TANK YET, LEAVE IT IN THE BAG, because if the food somehow falls to the bottom, you'll then hav 2 syphon it!, so don't trouble yerself.!!

Gravel does need to be siphoned regularly, unless the tank is heavily planted (roots throughout all the gravel). Keeping it in a bag/netting when the tank is first set up will allow you to avoid siphoning in the beginning, but regular siphonings should be started after the gravel is let loose from the bag. In my opinion, I would just set up the tank exactly the way you want it prior to cycling.

Quote:
This method is perfect if you haven't bought any fish yet.. you just need to put them in a temporary tank.

This statement is confusing to me. If you haven't bought fish, why would they need to be in a temporary tank? Please also note that if you do have fish, any temporary tank they might go into needs to be cycled first, as well.

Quote:
Now first of all u fill up the tank to the desired water level, you can use conditioned water, but at the time I ran out, so I just used plain tap water.

Not a good idea. If you run out of conditioner, go to the LFS and get more. If you don't yet have fish, obviously there's time to put the project on hold and run to the store to purchase the much needed conditioner.

Quote:
then basically u throw in all the stuff that will make it cloud up in the barricade (fish food, bloodworms & Algae Wafers(are perfect for the job! Put enough to cloud that tank 24/7!, so I'm estimating 7 algae wafers, and 12 slots of the bloodworms, if they come in slots), And if you bought some snails (1 or 2 will do, get Apple/Mystery Snails because they won't infestate the tank while its cycling) and drop them in the barricade as well along with the bloodworms and wafers
Then from here you just sit back and relax. If the water clouds up don't PANIC, it's part of the method, don't clean the tank either!

This does seem like a very messy way to cycle a tank, so I can see the need for the barricade. I've never cycled a tank with fish food, (I prefer to use pure/clear ammonia), but I have kept bacteria alive in this fashon. I simply "fed" the tank some fish food on a daily basis. Forty-eight hours before my fish arrived, I did a large water change and, in the process, siphoned all the fish food off the bottom. Personally, I prefer the less messy method. Wink

Quote:
Wait about a week, depending on how cloudy the water gets and how clear it gets everytime you check it, if you put a submergable heater at the back of the tank, wait until the water is so clear that you can read the meter. Mine took about 2 days. , wen you think the water is clear enough take out the barricade with the food (that's why you get a barricade , so it's less clean up for you!) and let the snails run free, while you go to the LFS and buy your desired fish!

A week is not long enough for the cycle to complete. It will take a month or more.

Quote:
After I did this method all I had to do to maintain it, is replace a few scoops of water in the tank with conditioned water every month or more..

It's unclear to me whether you are taking out a few scoops of water and then putting fresh water in, or whether the water is simply evaporating and you are topping the tank off. If it is the latter, this is very dangerous to your fish. Also "a few scoops of water" is quite vague. I imagine a few scoops to be a few cupfuls, and a few cupfuls of water being replaced monthly is not enough. I do weekly water changes of 30% - 40%. Some do more, some do less, but I'm sure most would agree "a few scoops" is not enough.

Quote:
and maybe an occasional syphon to clean the poo at the bottom, considering I have no gravel on the bottom of my tank

As far as having no substrate, I'm not sure what to make of that. I don't have substrate in my hospital tank, but all the rest of mine have it. Not only do I consider it aesthetically pleasing, many of my fish use the substrate in their everyday lives. Some require it (e.g. cories need sand). I just feel as if it is not natural to have a bare bottomed tank... As far as leaving the gravel hanging in the bag, I don't see the point. Most of your bacteria colony lives in your filter media. It just doesn't seem like there would even be as much bacteria living in a hanging bag of gravel as there would be in a substrate spread out on the bottom.

RevZ, although you do make a few good points (e.g. not rinsing filter media in tap water), you seem to have your facts messed up. It might be a good idea to just kind of hang around for awhile, soaking up the combined knowledge of the members of this board, before trying to post a guide for newbies. Perhaps you were lucky and didn't lose fish to this method, but it is not a safe method for cycling a tank. Whatever the method, there is no substitute for time.

For more information on cycling, please read this article: http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php and this post: http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=36202
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RevZ
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)17:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

diademhill wrote:
Very risky IMO.

Although some fish may survive being added with nitrites spiking most will not & those that do will suffer long term damage.

Not a method I could recommend. Although it is half way to a fishless cycle it misses the point of a fishless cycle which is to prevent any animal having to suffer.



Yes, that's why I said this is perfect if you haven't bought any fish yet!
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RevZ
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PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)17:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thnx for the advice!! Yeah, as u can tell I'm still not one of those professionals, but I just wanted to share my method that happend to work for me

Although just to clear things up,
-NO I did not have fish in the tank, I had them in a temporary tank (my brother's tank) and just had the Mystery Snails there, considering I read that they are capable of living through harsh waters with poor oxygen.
-YES I did mean cupfulls, but what I forgot is mine is a 2 footer and so after a few gallons that's already 25% of my water! so it would vary on the tank that others would have.
-I keep mine bare bottom so I can spot at where all the poo and waste is, so I can clearly see if the tank needs cleanin or not. And since syphoning removes water, there's more of my water level dropping
-The conditioned water, in order to use that don't you have to leave it in a bucket with the conditioner for a couple of days before use, that's what I read before
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Doc Daneeka
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Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Location: BC, Canada - I Love Skiing!

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)23:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with nikelodeon, I can't see why you don't have any sort of substrate in your tank. It will make your fish feel more comfortable and makes your tank look better. If you have a sand substrate, it is still easy to see the poo and uneaten food. I strongly recommend you get some sort of substrate for your tank.

I don't want to point out more problems with your idea, since others have already pointed them out, but just like they said, do some reading and ask questions before doing a guide for newbies to follow. Just as it implies, newbies don't have much experience and may end up having problems using methods that have worked for just one person.

Sorry, I tried to make this "constructive criticism", and don't be discouraged! Feel free to try new things, just ask some questions and do research to find out what you're getting into first.

Good luck!

Doc

*edit* Yes, it's correct that if you leave a bucket of water sitting open for at least 24 hours you won't need to use conditioner, you just have to give it enough time for the chlorine to evaporate.
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Slimy
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Joined: 20 Nov 2007

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)23:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
*edit* Yes, it's correct that if you leave a bucket of water sitting open for at least 24 hours you won't need to use conditioner, you just have to give it enough time for the chlorine to evaporate.

This is true for chlorine, but not for chloramines, which are used as a replacement (because they are more stable) by some water divisions.
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2008.01.02(Wed)3:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
diademhill wrote:
Very risky IMO.

Although some fish may survive being added with nitrites spiking most will not & those that do will suffer long term damage.

Not a method I could recommend. Although it is half way to a fishless cycle it misses the point of a fishless cycle which is to prevent any animal having to suffer.



Quote:
Yes, that's why I said this is perfect if you haven't bought any fish yet!

It is far from perfect & all tanks should be cycled before buying fish. Unfortunately poor advice abounds & many beginners are sold fish before their tanks are ready.
Please read up on the cycling process & on fishless cycling, there is plenty of information on this board about both and you've already been given some links.
The system you describe will not have completed the cycle! There are tried & tested ways of cycling a tank without fish and your method doesn't match up with any of them either on the convenience level or in effectiveness.
Just because water is clear doesn't mean it is safe.
The poor snails can at least get above the water level which is how they survive.

Sue
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RevZ
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007

PostPosted: 2008.01.02(Wed)4:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your replies everyone!!

ill be sure to take into consideration of what you all have said, and now that I read all the other threads you guys told me to I guess mine is considered an "amateur" effort.

Yes I will someday put someform of substrate.. I think I might just carpet the bottom (as in using carpetting plants, etc.) I've got some java moss on my driftwood.. would it grow on fine gravel?
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nikelodeon79
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Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.

PostPosted: 2008.01.02(Wed)8:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I have to say that you have a great attitude! Not many can take criticsm so well. Wink (myself usually included)

I believe java moss spreads best when it's on sand. Fine gravel should work, though.
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