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Price of fish...
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sirreal63
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Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Location: Meadowlakes, TX

PostPosted: 2007.03.01(Thu)19:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting topic...the price of fish has some relation to who buys them. I'll go from the saltwater side of the discussion.

Consider this fish... http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=16641&siteid=20

A mere 1300 bucks and he can be yours. If you paid 1300 for a fish would you be more concerned about it's life and your investment than if it were a 2.99 fish? I would say so. If this hobby were more expensive people might care about the fish more. If you don't have money to waste you might be more inclined to make better choices. Of course there will always be exceptions but in general the more of an investment you have in something the better you will care for that investment. Those 150.00 Hollister jeans will be better taken care of than the 20.00 walmart ones...yes?

I cringe every time I go coral shopping, the prices are very high and I research what I want and look for it when shopping. You don't typically impulse buy a 100.00 coral. If I bought an LPS coral that had very long sweeper tentacles it could kill some very expensive and hard to replace corals. The trend now is coral fads, where something that isn't widely available will garnish outlandish prices. Montipora Danae (aka Superman)comes to mind. One of my friends bought a 1" piece of this coral for 100.00 and paid for overnight shipping. This little tiny pc cost him 150.00 and that is ridiculous, but he was very sucessful with the Superman frag and now sells pcs of it himself. Mine is doing very nicely. Very Happy

I do feel bad for people getting into this hobby on a limited budget. They would be the ones who would be forced to make better choices on fish selection. That is where places like come in handy, and local fish clubs as well. We rely on each other for advice and in our local saltwater club we usually help newbies out with very cheap coral frags and most of the time they are free. We all have learned the expense in this hobby isn't the livestock but the equipment, if the livestock were higher priced it would weed out those who weren't serious about the hobby.

In short, higher prices do have the potential to create better fishkeepers of the masses. It is easier to blow off taking care of a 2.99 fish, but if that fish cost 10.00 you would be less likely to ignore it's needs.
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arachnar
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Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Location: Boise,Idaho

PostPosted: 2007.03.01(Thu)22:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also only 15 Sad and don't yet have a job because most people look for people above 16 (there are laws and employee welfare things,this usely applies to the fact that many employers would be sued for negligence if they let younger people work high risk materials or machines)
also I hope lfs are simply more caring like mine and inqire were you;ll be keeping the fish
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Serkan
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)2:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a trip to a nice little LFS I found a few weeks ago I have found out that:

Zebro Plecos L333 are $300 AUD ($225 US) for 8cm size.

Royal Plecos are almost twice this.

10cm Asian Green Arowana is $1300 AUD ($1000 US)

10cm Red Belly Pacu are $225 each ( $155 US)

Those are all pretty cheap prices too.

SO yea. Not buying any of those.
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Tienie
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Location: Jeffreys Bay, South Africa

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)4:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

If pet shops where forced to give accurate advice about fish, rather than try to sell you as much stuff as possible - it would have a better effect than raising prices.

The holding tanks need to have basic info on such as:

Adult size
Water requirements (hard / soft / pH)
Food requirements

This could be on a laminated card, with the details filled in in permanent marker so that it can be reused.
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number6
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)9:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utopias will never last though... how would super high prices last?

e.g. this happens already in feshwater... it's probably not far off for salt water fish...

If fish X takes 6 months to grow, and uses up resources Y to grow it... then it is a crop that can be farmed... if it has a price tag of $1300 per fish and the cost in resources is a mere $300 per fish to grow to market size, then we would begin farming this fish...
now to compete... do I really have to make $300 profit on the fish? assuming I sell for $600 to the LFS and LFS marks it up to $1300...
or... if can my business operate if I drop the price... or what if buyers learn that I will sell direct?

Simple... demand goes up as more people can afford super expensive fish X that they've drooled over for a year...

so... if the price is inflated... the extra money goes where? into whose pocket? because if it's anyone of the individuals in the trade, they will g for the profit for themselves...

now if you want to get really creative... you can slap a resource tax at the consumer level and funnel that money back into resource management...

but hey... next thing you guys cry about is high taxes... LOL

sorry... but I don't see how turning fish into a product like Gasoline is going to help anyone out... least of all the fish Laughing
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fiffy
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)10:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
now if you want to get really creative... you can slap a resource tax at the consumer level and funnel that money back into resource management...

I would suport that tax.
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McP
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)22:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

number6 wrote:
sorry... but I don't see how turning fish into a product like Gasoline is going to help anyone out... least of all the fish Laughing


I would say that theyre already a product Confused

If a breeder/supplier was cutting corners to save cost and make more money for themselves I would think that this would eventually (not necessarily immediately) lead to an inferior product. Skimping on feeding, maintenance or shipping to save costs would lower demand I would think. I know when I'm looking at fish I try to choose what I see as the healthiest of the bunch, and paying more for the fish would put them under even more scrutiny IMO. Where a store may be able to buy from the guy who cuts corners and have the potential to make more money if the liberties taken with husbandry affect the product, people would catch on. No?

The idea of instituting this as a tax is interesting and I would say possible as well. While I personally don't have an issue with it with the international nature of a lot of fish markets I could see issues with any kind of tax/tariff system at the governmental level.

I think Jack's point about this driving more people into the actual fishkeeping community is a great one. If I'm looking at your $1300 fish and hear that there are locally available equivalents from Jack for much less Ill probably go talk to him Wink
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Pete Harcoff
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Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Canada

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)23:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

McP wrote:
I would say that theyre already a product Confused


The word here would be "commodity". Because health issues aside, a fish of species X is going to be pretty much the same no matter where you buy it. And therefore, in a free market economy the very idea of jacking up prices simply wouldn't work. Cost of producing the fish, plus supply/demand will always control prices.

As was suggested, the only real way to regulate things would be to slap a tax on 'em. But then you'd probably just wind up with a black market.

In the end, the only real solution is education, education, and more education.
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Marcos Avila
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Santo Andre (Brazil)

PostPosted: 2007.03.02(Fri)23:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tienie wrote:
If pet shops where forced to give accurate advice about fish, rather than try to sell you as much stuff as possible - it would have a better effect than raising prices.

I have to admit I didn't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to mention that the comment above is more or less on the lines of how I see the issue.

Raising prices shouldn't be a goal to force better fish keepers, it should be a natural consequence of more basic measures taken to raise the level of shops and hobbyists altogether, for the fish's sake.

More and better regulations need to be made to provide a minimum required formal training for any employee that will deal with live animals, minimum amount of accurate information available for the customer at the shop, stricter laws for shop higiene and customer cruelty against animals, and of course, more efficient monitoring of all these regulations.

Measures like these will directly improve the quality of fish care, and since they imply extra costs, prices will naturally rise accordingly...giving an extra incentive for customers to improve on the quality of life and longevity of their fish.
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celticwraith
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: Brantford, Ontario Canada

PostPosted: 2007.03.04(Sun)9:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say after reading all the different opinions on this topic, I have changed my view. Raising prices alone won't help solve the problem of people buying fish, that have no clue how to care for them, or sellers who are willing to sell to them. It will just puts more money in the sellers pocket. I still would pay a slightly higher price, do to regulations and education being put in place. Prices would have made me think twice in the beginning, but as someone already pointed out, some people have money and don't care how they send it. Regulation,education along with some higher prices as some have pointed out, would most likely change how and when fish are sold.
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