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Price of fish...
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arachnar
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Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Location: Boise,Idaho

PostPosted: 2007.02.24(Sat)23:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wished that when I had started in this great hobby that I knew a little more.price would have probably made the difference in dead fish know though with numerous library books ,internet and common sense I know a ton more and will meekly accept myself as a medium skilled aquarist. Razz
I myself keep more expensive and larger fish and love them if you consider 8.99 for one rainbow expensive
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Michael L.
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Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Location: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)0:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think prices should be raised- it would make it too hard for young, but avid fishkeepers (A.K.A the newest generation of fishkeepers) to enjoy the hobby.

What I do think should happen, is that they should eliminate the warranties they have on fish in some stores. A few weeks ago, I watched a Petcetera employee give a lady 5 new goldfish for her 10 gallon tank because they died. She asked why they died, and it came down to the fact that she never cleaned the tank, and she never wanted to. Guess what... he still gave her new fish!
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McP
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)10:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does that eliminate up and coming fish keepers? It arguably makes it harder to get into the hobby. Is that a bad thing?

I would think that any young person wishing to get into a new hobby would be willing to save allowances/gift money/job money etc to get started. At least thats how I looked at the hobby. I wanted to get a fish tank but didn't have the money available at the time. I started saving money, and while I was doing this did some research. This led me to AofA, and eventually to these forums which were a great place to learn. Turns out after all the saving I got a 29 gallon tank as a gift and could use my money saved to upgrade filtration and stock the tank.

While getting the tank was nice having contributed a large amount of funds from my own earnings made the tank particularly rewarding. To me it would seem that higher prices would mean that people young and old who can't afford to drop $60 on a small school of fish would have to reconsider over the time it takes them to save up whether this is what they want. I think a lot of "havers" would bail out and go buy something else, while someone who is genuinely interested would stay focused on their goal.
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joitoy
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Location: Trinity, TX

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)11:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's equally inexpensive to get into owning a dog if you don't care of breeding line and age. You can adopt one for all of 60 dollars in most places, which pays for its spaying/neutering and first shots if they haven't already been done.


Most people view dogs as far less indispensible than fish, yet you iwll end up paying hundreds of dollars initial purchase and upkeep.

I pay and pay and pay so they can be healthy and happy far more than I ever had to pay for a dog. Raising the price would only make it more difficult for new people like me to get into the hobby, or to properly take care of the fish. If the price were to double for the fish and equipment, money I could spend on their supplies, medications, better filters, etc, would not be there.
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Michael L.
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Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Location: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)11:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How does that eliminate up and coming fish keepers? It arguably makes it harder to get into the hobby. Is that a bad thing?

I would think that any young person wishing to get into a new hobby would be willing to save allowances/gift money/job money etc to get started. At least thats how I looked at the hobby. I wanted to get a fish tank but didn't have the money available at the time. I started saving money, and while I was doing this did some research. This led me to AofA, and eventually to these forums which were a great place to learn. Turns out after all the saving I got a 29 gallon tank as a gift and could use my money saved to upgrade filtration and stock the tank.

While getting the tank was nice having contributed a large amount of funds from my own earnings made the tank particularly rewarding. To me it would seem that higher prices would mean that people young and old who can't afford to drop $60 on a small school of fish would have to reconsider over the time it takes them to save up whether this is what they want. I think a lot of "havers" would bail out and go buy something else, while someone who is genuinely interested would stay focused on their goal.


I don't know what you did when you were a young teen, but I sure a heck didn't have $60 to drop on a few neons and I definitely didn't have anywhere to earn it. I think it's narrow minded to think that only people with money should keep fish. I'm 15 and I have put over $500 into fish over the years and about $1500 into other fishkeeping equipment (all of which I have worked hard to earn over the last 6 years to earn). Imagine if neon tetras cost $10 a piece rather than the standard $1... Even if all fish cost ten times as much as the do now. I would have $5000 into fish and I tell you right now that it is absolutely impossible for anyone that young to have $6500 into fish just to keep them alive and happy.

My aquariums aren't even all that fancy either. Even a lot of my fish are from local breeders so they are cheaper.

Unless a young fishkeeper was getting handouts from their parents, it is unlikely that they could afford the hobby if fish prices were raised.

Ciklido, me, and other young hobbyists on this site are able to have a rare opinion on this matter, because we are the young next generation of fishkeepers and a lot of the times we have to work hard to get fish, even at these prices. I have to agree with Ciklido that I would be forced to stop keeping fish if prices were raised.

It is really easy for someone with a full time job to say that young people should "save their money."
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thebelovedtree
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)12:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have fish as a teen, but I did have exotics for whom I was responsible. During high school I spent WAY more on my iguana and my rats than I have on the fish. Setup for Iggy was in excess of $500, plus $80 to adopt him from the pound, plus food (which my parents were kind enough to help me with if it was bought w/ the family's groceries, this was their ONLY financial contribution to my pets) plus yearly vet visits which were all over $100, and if he ever got sick, required meds. etc, was more money.

My rats were all females so in the three years I had them I had a total of 4 mammary tumor removal surgeries at $200, urinalysis at $100, ultrasound at $100, exploratory surgery/ hysterectomy for reproductive cancer $150 and one had chronic respiratory problems which required very expensive antibiotics compounded at a pharmacy the next town over regularly.


I busted my butt, saved my $ and worked 30 hours a week (in school) when I needed to and I kept everyone taken care of. I spent a lot of birthday/Christmas money and I was happy to do it because I am passionate about my animals.

It is possible as a teen to work hard, save money and take care of animals you really care about, and if you don't have the money at that time and keeping an animal is something you're truly interested in you can always wait a few years.

I'm 20 right now, so I'm still broke, and I maintain 2 cats, the iguana, and the fish tank on not that much money because I'm willing to sacrifice some extras in order to meet their needs.

I personally feel that it would be better to discourage a few people with a passion for fish than to maintain the current system where fish in the millions are killed due to a lack of research and abundance of misinformation.


ETA: I left out the emergency vet visits for a broken leg scare ($200), and as Herbert aged she required a few steroid shots in the middle of the night because of her breathing condition ($80 X2) then follow ups with the regular vet after each.
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)13:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

McP god bless you for initiating this topic, I was actually thinking today to post this in here.
I am selling fish every day and this thought is always on my mind..."would those ignorant people, that ignore all my advices for the fish well being, research a bit before buying the fish if the prises were higher???"

And the answer lies in the salt-water section of my shop Laughing All customers that come to buy saltwater fish (that is very expensive) already know what they are doing Laughing Laughing Wink What a delight for my soul. And a thought for the freshwater fish "you poor poor poor little/big devils Sad "

YES, the prises should be reasonably higher for all freshwater fish. As well as that all Fish shops should have info's about fish requirements and compatibility in the shop and on their web-sites.

I am trying to initiate something like that on my shops web site. I started a Akvarievaxt BLOG (the green illustration on the home page, click on it) which means Aquarium plants BLOG in Swedish but is written in English. I will try to add as much as I can, for fish and plants useful, info. www.zoogiganten.se

We on aquahobby don't need higher prises just so we would respect the fish life more, of course. But we should understand what difference this would have on Fish-keeping/having, or what Smile

Just an example;
the man - I would like to buy 5 of those Clown Loaches.

Me - What is your tank size?

the man - ah just so, little 20, 30 or 40 liters.

Me - Sir it is my duty to inform you that this fish will very much like to grow to about 30 cm.

the man - But it will grow just to the size of my aquarium!!!

Me - Indeed it will, but not with its free will or because that makes this fish feel better. It actually stop growing because it gets stunted. It feels there is no place to grow more and that kind of fish, instead of living 20 years will live just 4 with probably a few ich outbreaks because of the stress.

the man - O it is great that this fish will not live longer because 20 years with the same fish...o no that is too long, and it is good that it stays smaller in smaller tanks because it looks so cute, like a "Nemo".
And it doesn't matter if they die sooner, it is not like they cost much, I can buy new ones (the man said, having a laugh)

Me - ... Confused Sad

Kind fish-keepers regards, Dusko.
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number6
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)13:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

perhaps it's my experiences in the cichlid world, but $ does not help anything... in fact, I think it makes things worse...

e.g. Cyprichromis... $ from hobby breeder, $50 for 12...
$ at LFS $40 per fish... so 12 would cost around $400 after usual discounts

I would call $400 a fair chunk of change wouldn't you? Doubly so considering all the buyers need to do is drive for a but to a hobbyists house.

So, who buys the $40 cyps and is out $400? is it the serious cichlid fan who knows what he's doing in rearing and caring for Cyprichromis sp. ?

Nope... it is the guy with more money than sense who plunks down $400 like it's nothing to throw these poor cyps in with Jags, or Frontosa, or any other of a long list of tank busters that eat small fish...

"oh, 1 gets eaten evey other day... won't get those again... I've heard that I need something a bit bigger so I'm going to put Aulonacara in next time... but only the most colourful ones... I'm not spending $30 on a brown fish! "

So in a fresh water fish world with high prices... all I see is a different form of abuse. I don't see high prices doing a thing...

another example.... got a buddy who buys fish from local breeders and sells to the rich impulse shoppers...

he has 3.99 angelfish, and 12.99 angelfish... the 3.99 come from overseas and are the usual caliber... the 12.99 are from a local breeder. Which sell out first? 12.99 ones...

people don't buy fish because they are cheap... they buy em because they WANT em, and nobody says no to themselves in this world any more...
want/ need used to mean different things... I'm finding it hard to see that people around me know the difference any longer.

my 2 cents.
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fancy
Members


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)15:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can relate to your post number 6. Especially the want/need part. My sentiments exactly. The world is becoming a place of the haves/have nots. People buys lots of things they don't need. From what I remember in school, basic survival is food/clothing & shelter. Anyway, not gonna let this post become political, so lets just leave it at that. I think we are on the same page here number 6.
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McP
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2007.02.25(Sun)16:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael: I would consider myself part of the younger generation as well. I'm only 20 Wink I do not have a full time job(I'm a university student paying my own way) but since I was 14 I've always had a job. I live 7 miles away from the nearest town and a half hour drive from the nearest city. Maybe I'm fortunate to have parents that were willing to drive me to work on weekends. I've never had an allowance either. I'm saying if you want something bad enough you will find a way to make money and get it. I am not saying only people who are economically advantaged should enjoy niceties in life as that would be narrow minded.

Dusko: A lot of my thinking on this topic originated from my work at a LPS. While the manager still tried to maintain low prices to be competive they were supportive of other employees and myself taking the time to talk to customers, advise them and refuse sale if they were unsuitable owners. Whether it was a fish from the store or animal in the shelter they backed our decisions because they cared about the animals. Unfortunately that manager left... and so did most of us as the new person was a very shrewd business person, but I swear they did not have a bone sympathetic to the animals well being in their body. If more people in power were like manager #1 we wouldnt even be discussing this, unfortunately many owners/managers are much like the second person. They see numbers and margins... not lives.

Number6: I agree that $400 dollars for a tank of cyps is quite a bit. But even in your example the person rules out getting them again if theyll only be eaten because they cost that much. While rich people have the money nobody likes watching their money get eaten up for nothing. As far as gradually adding bigger colorful tank mates Id have to say that any decent LFS should start asking questions. While this person could very well be a meal ticket for management Id like to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they have a conscience and respect for life. Id also like to assume that after 2 different species being decimated by the larger fish people would grow a brain but that may not be realistic I guess. This isnt a sure fire way to stop all abuse but I think the volume of fish going into uncycled/unsuitable tanks would drop. I agree that with some people who enjoy the privilege of money it is hard to tell whether they want or need something. Wink

As a note my basis for multiplying price is around 3x the current cost. When I suggested $10 for neons that is because in Winnipeg they are between $3 and $4 depending on the store. I also was only suggesting a rise in the price of fish not all the equipment that goes along with the hobby.
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