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Time-out bucket
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)10:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on boys and girls, be nice to each other.

Keep in mind, other poeple were trying to help you Raider. Maybe a bit too harsh. You were asking people's advise and people were just trying to express their views, somtimes a be stronger than you would like.

IMHO, putting a fish like that in a 3 g bucket would have killed him in few days, even with 50% water change per day. Here is why:

1. He would not have that much room to move around. It will be very stressful for him.

2. You don't have much fitration going on in the bucket, even with 50% water change, the ammo, nitrite level would shoot very hign in few days, ending up killing him. The bio-load is just too much for that bucket size.

3. The water temp in the bucket will be very hard to keep at the right range, add to another stress factor.

As you can see, the odds are against him and there is not much chance he could come out alive. Maybe that's why people were kind of harsh on this because they saw a certan death for the fish.

People were only trying to help. I'm sure nobody is trying to call your names. Sometimes people here care about the warefare of the fish and jump in a bit to hard on things. IMHO, that's OK. It shows people at least care about things. What would you say if nobody answered your post? I would say that' would be worse, right?

Take it easy and enjoy your fish tank.
125 g discus tank 13 discus, 5 Sterbai cory, 3 clown loaches, 1 Albino BN pH 6.3 50% WC x2/wk
2 g nano tank 3 Danio, pH 7.6 80% WC/ 2 days
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)10:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, thats pretty much it fishlover. I was asking for peoples opinions, and I was hoping for a simple answer. If they would have just said "No, that won't work. He would die." Or something like that, I would have been gratefull for their help.

But instead, they accused me of being cruel and said I wasnt being a responsible fish-keeper.

You answered the question exactly how people should, simple and nice.

Ya, I could of been a little bit less jerkish in my replies back to them, but they don't understand that the entire reason I asked, was to know if it would work fine or not. Not to be attacked.

Thank you all for responding and answering my question, but please understand, I asked so I could know. Now I know.
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Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Middle Georgia

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)12:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

RF92 - I would have to side with number6 on this one. You were very clear in your inquiry that you wanted to intentionally stunt the fishes growth to give the other a chance at catching up.

I have a 16 year old son who is taller than his 17 year old brother, perhaps I should keep him in a closet and not feed him as much so his older brother can catch up. Sounds pretty ridiculous huh? It's the same scenario you presented, just swapped children for fish.

The whole premise behind this site, and many others like it, is to teach responsible "fish keeping". If you were just given the answer "NO", what have you learned? Nothing. I personally would not be satisfied with "NO". I want an explanation as to why, which is what you received.

Keep in mind, you may have started this thread, but are by far not the only one to draw on the information passed. For number6, or any member, for that matter to have answered you with only "NO" would have been a disservice to the rest of the board.
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Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)13:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

JB, I think he got the point already. Wink
"Express Yourself Don't Repress Yourself" - Madonna
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Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)18:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it me that gave you the suggestion of 2 firemouths? I typically suggest that to people looking for a small cichlid pair. I stress pair, because of your profile:

29 gallon-sponge filter 1 kuhli loach 3 Juvenile Firemouth Cichlids Small amazon sword 1 otocinclus catfish 1 Female Guppy (she survived the mass murder of guppies caused be rapid pH swing)

While I consider 2 firemouths, properly paired, suitable tankmates in a 29, I do not consider that mix of fish in any way proper. Please read about the proper pairing of cichlids, it can be messy business as you found out. Additionally, loaches, otos and guppies are not suitable for living with firemouths.
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)20:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I need to update that.

I got a new awesome powerfilter for 50 gallons (a little buffer room) and the female guppy died, AND JD killed one of the other firemouths, so I'm down to two.
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)22:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

How convenient of you RaiderFan92 to dismiss my posts as only being insulting and not helpful. I have yet to insult you... feel free to quote where I have done so...

my first post attempted a simple explanation that the very concept was flawed in it's philosophy and cruel it its effect.

My next reply went into more detail that it is stunting, and that your desired end result is illogical and does not match normal behaviour in territorial animals or cichlids.

I ended with two alternate plans for you.

Why on earth would I have explained why it wouldn't work? The very idea, the very purpose behind the idea is contrary to the very purpose of this board.
Age of strives to promote fish keeping... which, in short form, is the keeping of the animal in the best fashion we have the ability to offer.

If you can give me one shred of evidence that a bucket and slowing the fishes growth was "keeping the fish in the best fashion that we have the ability to offer" then I will apologize.

Now, in your last post, I see you do not understand what the function of a filter is, and your fish are killing each other...

do I take the time to start explaining the problems with your tank and notions of a filter... if I thought you were open, I would. Since my 2 previous posts fell on deaf ears, I expect that my opinions and information on filters and fish deaths would find similar ground.

Now this post may appear (in some small way) that I feel you had a valid point re: bob's replies... I don't.... but I only feel it appropriate to challenge your accusations against me.

So... get quoting... where have I insulted you and where did I not offer useful info?
"Just don't look in my fish room honey... it's just better for all of us. "
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.13(Sat)23:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, hey.......calm down.

You werent one of the guys that insulted me, I forgot to add that into my posts , and was just getting on the internet to edit my last post to say that.

You gave me alternatives and explained it to me.

And I don't know what your talking about with the filter..... unless you think that I think that a filter gives you the right to not change water in an aquarium. Which I know is COMPLETELY wrong. When I said buffer room, I meant if I missed my weekly water change because we were on vacation, or some kind of emergency or something like that, missing that one week would really do that much damage to water quality.

And about the fish killing each other, I didn't have any time to stop anything. I woke up one morning, and saw a dead firemouth completely shredded.

I understand how you guys could get the idea that I'm one of those people that throw any kind of fish together, and buys an expensive filter to not have to do any tank mantenence, but I'm not. I didn't know loaches didn't mix with cichlids, or that otos didn't either. I knew that guppies didn't, but I thought they would leave her alone until they were bigger.

I do weekly 25% water changes while gravel vacuuming.

Before I bought fish I spent endless hours searching for every shred of info that talked about how to care for every species I got.

So you guys can think that I'm irresponsible, but I know that I'm plenty responsible.

And thank you for the help, number6 (I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean thanks)
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Michael L.

Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Location: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada

PostPosted: 2007.01.14(Sun)0:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know loaches didn't mix with cichlids, or that otos didn't either.

and then.

Before I bought fish I spent endless hours searching for every shred of info that talked about how to care for every species I got.


I still don't think you understand the filter thing. Adding a larger capacity filter does not give you very much (if any) extension to your water change intervals. It only allows you to have more time between filter cleanings. It also gives your tank more surface area for bacteria to colonize.

This means, if you miss a weekly water change while you are on vacation with a larger filter, you will have the same (or a greater) amount of nitrates as you would if you had the original smaller filter.

All I can say, is good luck.
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2007.01.14(Sun)8:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiderfan, please read the following, it will give you an insight into Cichlid behaviour. Also take note, I have been keeping fish for 45 years, and think I know a little bit about fish.

Yesterday afternoon my breeding pair of Angels who I have had for over a year in a 40 UK gallon (About 48 US gallons) heavily planted tank, spent the afternoon depositing their latest brood of eggs, they then spent the evening gently caring for them.

I came down this morning and all seemed well.

Half hour ago I couldn't help notice they were trying very hard to kill each other. The poor male has a busted lip, split fins, and lots of abbrasions on his flanks.

If he lives, I now have three Angel tanks with three Angels.

I must point out that all three of those tanks are larger than the tank you have a pair of Firemouths in, and all of them are less stocked, than yours.

Cichlids can be MEAN and very NASTY at the flick of a switch. A Firemouth can do a lot more damage than Angel fish. This will only get worse as they get older and reach sexual maturity (If you think they are mean now, just wait and see)

This is why with Cichlids it helps to have larger tanks, and always have a PLAN B (More tanks).

If in an ideal world, if your Firemouths pair up, never show any aggression, you did twice weekly 20% water changes, your fish were full grown, you could just get away with a pair of them in a tank of your size (It wouldn't be perfect, and in my personal opinion half the size it should be).

But Cichlids don't work out that way. I really think you need a far larger tank, before one of your fish gets killed, and in truth both of them become stunted.

I am only typing this out, so you can provide a good home for your fish, and they in turn can give you years of pleasure, rather than seeing them bust each other up, and you end up getting out of fish keeping because all you see is dead fish.

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