Aquarium & Tropical Fish Site
Tropical Fish Forums
Aquarium fishkeeping around the world!
 
ChatChat  HelpHelp   Search BoardSearch Board   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Check your private messagesCheck your private messages   Log inLog in   RegisterRegister 
Under Gravel Filter
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 Forum Index > Chemistry and Equipment  Reply to topic   Post new topic
Author Message
brisbaneace
New Members


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: 2007.01.08(Mon)21:12    Post subject: Under Gravel Filter Reply with quote

I have only recently set up my 220 litre tank with a canister fliter (800 lph), being the first time I have used an outside filter. I still have the UGF with a 400 lph powerhead working in the tank as well. Is it of any use to keep the UGF operating as well as the canister? From what I have read in this forum UGF 's are not real popular now, and I am thinking I may well be better off without it at all? Question
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richiestang_78
Regulars


Joined: 13 Oct 2003

PostPosted: 2007.01.08(Mon)22:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well some love them but mostly these days people stay away from them. I would say get rid of it and just go with the canister as UGFs are having a slow death.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
brisbaneace
New Members


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: 2007.01.09(Tue)1:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta admit that the tank is crystal clear with the canister filter-never seen it so clear in fact!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flame Angel
Regulars


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: 2007.01.09(Tue)3:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Canister Filter is doing the job, then I would stop using the UGF- as after a while they can become a 'nutrient sink'.

How long have you had the canister filter running for? Because you might have to wait a while until a descent amount of bacteria starts to form in the canister.(Kind of like cycling the tank again).

Just keep testing for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates to make sure everything is still under control.

Oh by the way, I noticed you were from Australia (sorry, a bit off topic Rolling Eyes ), but do you know much about lion fish? Please see my thread in the marine section - here it is:
http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=40497

Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bob
Moderators


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2007.01.09(Tue)4:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another option.

Why not use the UG in reverse flow, but power it from the outflow of the cannister filter.

For a planted tank this can be a very good option as it keeps the roots of the plants in warmer water (Stops cold spots in the substrate). The cannister filter does the bulk of the mechanical filtration, the cannister and reverse flow UG combine for massive biological filtration, and you can still use chemical filtration when needed in the cannister.

If you did this, you may could the tank for a day or so as the crap gets, blown out of the UG (a goog clean with a syphon before hand could be a good idea).

This is the system of filtration recomended in the UK, by one of the countries most respected plant sellers. I copied this from his website:

Quote:
While external filters coupled to a reverse flow under gravel filter, (where clean warm out flow water is recycled beneath the gravel & down the uplift where a power head would normally sit) will remain in my opinion the best for growing plants where fish are present. Do not be put off by out dated books which are anti-under gravel because while it is true their use slows plant growth a little they do provide the most cost effective option for maintain a stable aquarium environment. If you cannot use U/G filtration a heater cable 50W or greater will be beneficial. This prevents long-term stagnation and chilling of the base, which will lead to general degradation and foul gases. However while under soil heaters help they seldom produce enough convection to correct the problem entirely. If


If you already have the UG in place, you have nothing to lose (Unless you have a fine soil sub-substrate).

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fishlover888
Regulars


Joined: 20 Dec 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.09(Tue)9:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

UGF will keep your water clear and good for about 1 year, maybe year and half, then you really have to do a good clean up job or your water condition will start to go down hill.

One of the reasons your watre is so clear is UGF push the water down so nothing will be floating around. Once you stop using it, you will see some small particals in the water with cannister filter. The way to get rid of them is to include some fine fiber moss in your cannister filter. It will trap the small things and you will have the same clear water.

I notice you have plants in the tank. Plants and UGF is a no no, unless you are using reverse flow like Bob said. The problem with reverse flow is you will have the same thing with small particals floating around. Might as well add some fine fiber in your cannister.
_________________
125 g discus tank 13 discus, 5 Sterbai cory, 3 clown loaches, 1 Albino BN pH 6.3 50% WC x2/wk
2 g nano tank 3 Danio, pH 7.6 80% WC/ 2 days
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coryfan
Regulars


Joined: 11 Feb 2006

PostPosted: 2007.01.10(Wed)15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only problem I see with UGFs is that the gravel needs to be cleaned often as it is the filter media that traps all the debris. It is a pain in the neck to siphon the gravel using an UGF with a planted tank. Otherwise, if a person wants a very easy set-up with plastic plants and with a small fish load, UGFs will produce crystal clear water and the only thing you will need to really worry about are the airstones getting clogged.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob
Moderators


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2007.01.10(Wed)15:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The problem with reverse flow is you will have the same thing with small particals floating around.


Quote:
The only problem I see with UGFs is that the gravel needs to be cleaned often as it is the filter media that traps all the debris.


Not with a reverse flow, the water goes into the cannister filter first, then goes through the UG. Apart from normal gravel cleaning that we all have to do, you would end up with a warm substrate, very little dirt, and massive biological filtration.

Seeing as the original poster has all the gear in situ, so only needs to sort out the plumbing (Putting the cannister outflow into the UG uplift tube, with some kind of seal, he may as well give it a try.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brisbaneace
New Members


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: 2007.01.10(Wed)17:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I will give this a go after reading the replies to my question. As Bob said, everything is in place to try it out, so it's most probably worth a go. The only thing that worries me is the amount of junk that will be pushed into the tank from under the surface of the gravel, and how long it will then take to clear in the tank. Will it harm my fish that are in the tank now?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob
Moderators


Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2007.01.10(Wed)17:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the gravel a good clean before you hook it up, it may put out a bit of mess, but I think your tank is a newish setup, so shouldn't be to bad, and your cannister should clear it up in a short time.

Normally UG's have a soft plastic top to the uplift tube that the air tube sits in, you may need to cut this, so the outflow of the cannister filter can sit inside yet form a barrier for water coming back up the tube.

Let us know how you get on. If it works your tank will have the best of both worlds filtration wise, if it doesn't you have wasted an hour or so.

I ran a set up like this many years ago, I could be tempted to go back to it, but I use soil under my gravel so it wouln't work.

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
 Forum Index > Chemistry and Equipment All times are GMT - 6 Hours Reply to topic   Post new topic
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Jump to:  
  You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2008 phpBB Group

oF <=> oC in <=> cm G <=> L