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Breeding Plan
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)4:16    Post subject: Breeding Plan Reply with quote

I am going to breed livebearers so I can afford some Zebra Plecos (L46)
The reason I chose livebearers because they are easy to breed and raise and their is always a market for them. I have three tanks...

280 Liter
37 Liter divided tank
30 Liter tank

I want to use the following tanks for the following reasons.

280 Liter tank
This is where I am going to house my breeding trio of Albino Bristle Nose Plecos. I will have 6-7 floating hatcheries like these
http://www.trademe.CO2.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Fish/Fishbowls-tanks/auction-82334707.htm
These are going to be modified so that their is only space to house one pregnant female by removing one section bars.
I will house the fish for a total of 4 weeks in these then let them into the large 280 liter tank to grow out. If they are 1-2cm then ill sell half to the LFS. Should I have gravel in this tank? I have gravel in it now, but it can be taken out if needed be.

30 Liter tank
This is where I want to house...
3 Golden Ottos
3 Clown Killifish
I want to breed both of these fish and will move the fry into the 75gal tank to raise and sell on.

37 Liter tank divided
This is where I am going to house my 4 types of livebearers, on one half of the tank I will house
3 Albino Kio Swordtails
3 Lyre Tailed Black Balloon Molly
and on the other half
3 Pintail Red Wagtail Platty
3 Moscow Blue

Would this be OK? I think it would be alright, but I know swordtail's are quiet active, I could put them in the 280 liter tank but will they eat my bristlenose babies? and how would I catch the female to put them in the fry trap. Last problem with them would they eat the young fry from the other fish? What size would the fry have to be for them not to fit in the mouths of the swords and how would I catch them?[/url]
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Bob
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)4:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of points to raise.

1 Fish breeding isn't away to make money. At best you will get a few pennies back to cover some of your food costs, at worst you will be having to cull (Kill) lots of poor fish who's colours aren't good enough to sell etc.

2 A 30 liter tank is too small to house the amount of livebearers you are planning for. At most it would hold 3 or 4 fish, and to be honest too small for full grown Swordtails etc for a long term life.

3 Yes there is a market for good quality and well bred fish, but there are also millions of unwanted, and un-sellable livebearer fry on the market, often in a tank in the corner of LFS's that sell for pennies, but often end up being used for food for fish eating fish.

Most LFS's will take a few fry off a valued customer to help them out, but it is easy to flood the market.

If I was going to do this (Semi Commercial breeding), I would get a seperate tank for each species. The tanks would be 24x12x12 (Minimum and depending on species), and would have UG filters with lots of cover (Piles of stones etc, so the fry can hide), I would also have another tank of the same size to move the parents to, after they give birth (Or vica versa).

You need to take into account the problem of gentics, you may well start off with three very nice well bred fish, but the genetic code in fancy (Bred by man that way) coloured fish is hardwired to produce the wild form of the fish, so probably a lot of the young will be fairly plain fish that you can't sell.

For example in the world of Koi breeding they reckon 90% of all fry are culled (Killed) on the first selection. Out of the remaining 10% only a few will be really good fish that can be sold for money, the rest get sold like veg on a market stall as "Rubbish fish" and end up in LFS as Koi for poor people. A good breeder will cull these "Rubbish fish".

Most people who breed fish at home (Semi commercial) are long term hobbiest who do it for plesaure (Not for money), they have spent years developing a reputation for good quality fish, and a good working relationship with a few LFS's, so they have a good outlet for the fry.

I hope that helps.

Bob

PS Platties and Swordtails will interbreed
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)5:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think space is a issue any more for they have been breed in captivity so long that they don't require a large amount of space to live/breed.
Take example; Marine fish, these fish are kept and breed in this size tank, Dartfish are the same as swordtail's and they are kept in 5gal nano tanks with great success.

I know I won't make much money on these fish, but the New Zealand fish market is VERY different to the US market. My fish will be welcome in any shop because of the cost of fish from wholesalers is far to expensive plus shipping expense. I am trying to save for L46 Zebra Pleco which cost me around $400NZD each.

I have already found LFS that will purchase my fish of me.

Killifish sell for about $7-8 each
Ottos sell for about $2 each
Albino Kio Swordtails sell for around $20 each.
Platties sell for around $1.5 each
Mollies sell for around $2-3 each
Moscow Guppies ell for around $5 each

I am thinking of trying to make a special section in the 280 house them but cannot find suitable housing. If I put them in the 75 gal to free rang then I will never catch her and if I try will most likely killing her.

I have a very good filtration and about 1cm of gravel on the bottom.

I know plattie's and swordtail's can interbreed but I didn't think they could do it with mollies.
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Bob
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: UK

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)5:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think space is a issue any more for they have been breed in captivity so long that they don't require a large amount of space to live/breed.


Got to admit I strongly disagree with this statement.

All animals that we take in as pets, or even farm animals, have a right to live a decent life, if you are setting the fish equivelent of a chicken battery farm, and don't care about your fishes well being, I doubt you will have much succsess as a fish breeder, and I wouldn't buy any fish from you.

Sorry if that upsets you.

Bob
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)5:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e8f7ec23ee5af756a3b3861734807de2&threadid=1004784
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e8f7ec23ee5af756a3b3861734807de2&threadid=933652
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e8f7ec23ee5af756a3b3861734807de2&threadid=1003078

These are marine fish, these fish have HUGE territory in the wild but can accustom to captive conditions with ease.

I am a environmental freak and wish to help endangered animals survive the plunders of man, so I have the up most respect for my fish, but I have seen and been told by many breeders that this is how they should be housed. Fancy show guppies are kept and breed in 3gal tanks, they are an active fish but yet they still enjoy their life to breed for their owner.

I am looking to move the swords into the 280 liter tank but I am having issues on how to divide the tank without tearing it down. I am thinking about giving them a section at the back, I would let them free lance but I will never catch the female. Is their any traps for sale on the net?

This is what will be left in the 37 liter divided tank...

3 guppies
3 mollies
3 platties
I have a excellent filtration so water quality won't be a issue.
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)6:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found a way to house the swordtail's in the tank. I will let them have the tank to themselves and when I need to catch the female I will use this...
http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/cleaning-products_pesttraps.htm
Aqua Medic Aquarium Fish Trap '
I will just trap the female and move her to a fry trap.
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FiftyCalibre
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)20:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what filtration do you have?
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)20:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

FiftyCalibre wrote:
So what filtration do you have?


I have...

300Liter = Sera 1100
37Liter = Sera 60 Sponge
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fish_guru
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 2006.12.29(Fri)20:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks this is what I have decided to do...

300 Liter Tank
This is where I will house my breeding trio of Albino Bristle Nose (aventually I am going to put a divider down the middle and get trios going at the same time) I will House the 4 Swordtails in this tank, when the female is gravid I will catch her with this
http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/cleaning-products_pesttraps.htm
This is where I will have the 6 floating hatcheries where the females will drop their fry and where I will grow them out to around 1-2cm then I will sell them to the LFS

37 Liter Tank Divided
This is where I am going to house my livebearers.
on one half of the tank I will have...
3 platties/3 guppies
and on the other half I will have
3 otos/3 mollies

When I do water changes I will mix fresh clean water with water from the 300 so when I move the females around their isn't a shock and kill her. Will this work?


25 Liter Tank
I am thinking about adding it on to the 37 divided and add another filter, adding more water to the system and saving me $60 on a heater. I want to house this in the tank for breeding...
3 Clown Killifish/4 Bearded Corys

This is my plan to get enough funds to help me get some L46 adults.

Does this sound better?
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Ilyena
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Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: 2006.12.30(Sat)2:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mollies grow up to 6 inches (15 cm), and females even larger. Do you really think they belong in a 37 liter divided tank? They also prefer a bit of salt in their tanks, that otos do not. Platies and guppies will crossbreed I believe so it is not a good idea to have them share the space.

If you really want to breed I'd suggest getting more decent-sized tanks to house the fish in. Putting that many fish in a 37 liter and a 25 liter sounds cruel beyond limits to me, but in my country it is actually against the law to permanently put any fish regardless of size in tanks less than 40 litres so I suppose I have different views about this than you who live elsewhere and are used to seeing fish in tiny sized tanks.
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