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sick angel
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2006.12.11(Mon)22:05    Post subject: sick angel Reply with quote

our angel, Angelo, has had an open sore on his left side for about a month now. I've tried treating it with melafix. now with maracyn, maracyn 2, TC. it seems to get better for a cycle or two of the treatment (melafix) - then returns more aggresively.

he's developed another small sore on the same side. he's eating normally, swimming normally, acting completely normal save for these spots on his side. he doesn't seem to be scratching and all of his tank stats are in the norm. I've raised the temp a touch and I'm even treating with coppersafe, maroxy, and maracide just in case something else tries to develop while he's weak.

the edges of the injury are dark grey in portions, white in others, but not really frayed. they start out slightly raised, but as the wound gets older it flattens out and no longer has that crater type shape.

does anyone have any suggestions for my boy?

he's currently housed with 4 silver dollars and his mate, Inky.


Last edited by samz on 2006.12.14(Thu)11:51; edited 2 times in total
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2006.12.11(Mon)22:24    Post subject: His actual injury Reply with quote

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AQUA-MAN
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Location: United States

PostPosted: 2006.12.12(Tue)22:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it start at the base of the fins? Give us your tank and water parameters.
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2006.12.13(Wed)5:34    Post subject: Tank and water Reply with quote

This is a 36 gallon freshwater tank. This tank is not planted with live plants and is running on normal air and filtration as the antibiotics we're using don't require removal of the charcoal if params are in the normal range.

He's housed with 4 silver dollar tetras, 2 catfish that stick mostly to the bottom (of course) and his mate angel, Inky. He's been a healthy fish for almost a year.

We tested the water again last night:

0ppm nitrites
7.0 exact pH
0 ammonia
5ppm nitrates

We did a hefty water change the other day and he's seemed of a healthier attitude since then. We regularly use Cycle, AmQuel, and Wardley's 3 in 1 7.0 pH water conditioner in their tanks for maitenance.

The spots don't really start at the base of the fins, its more down on his abdomen that it started and the second spot is developing behind that one.

Knocking on wood, no one else in the tank has shown any symptoms or signs of illness and Angelo is still eating and pooing normally. We're currently cycling him through antibiotics one more time starting yesterday:

Maracyn
Maracyn 2
Maracyn TC broadspec
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Osprey
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Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Okotoks, AB

PostPosted: 2006.12.14(Thu)8:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa... slow down!
Way too many medications, too fast. Keep in mind that most medications are very hard on your fish, so dosing multiple medications in the space of a month for a wound... not a great idea. (ever seen a House episode where they pump a person full of a dozen different antibiotics and their liver or kidneys shut down as a result? Aggressive treatment like that should only happen when there is an aggressive disease).
Generally speaking, stay away from meds unless there is a definite sign of disease that needs to be treated. I would cut your treatments back to melafix and pimafix (bacterial and fungal), no more. These treatments are much more gentle than most others. Keep the water super-clean (water changes twice a week would be a good idea here), and the fish should recover without any extra medicine. Right now, the fish's system will be so stressed from the meds, it won't have any extra energy to fix the wound!
For more inspiration, check out the story of Mac, Deb's pleco, that had an injury much more severe than the sore on your angel and fully recovered without infection or the use of aggressive chemical treatment.
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2006.12.14(Thu)11:50    Post subject: the problem I'm having is this.. Reply with quote

the problem is, melafix is the medication we were using up until we started him on the antibiotics. the melafix had no effect on his wound and the second sore even showed up while he was on the melafix.

these aren't wounds that are appearing due to being attacked by more aggressive fish, they are ulcerating on their own - meaning bacterial most likely.

melafix has worked for me in some cases in the past and I'm not new to the aquarium scene, but I haven't seen anything like this that spreads in clean water without affecting anyone else.

the maracyn and maracyn 2 work as gram - and gram + coverage and they actually seem to be helping the little man out since I first posted. the spot has gotten cleaner, he's more eager for his food and I think he's actually thinking about mating with Inky again. we'll see.

I edited my first post to be more correct in the direction we've gone with the medications. we used the melafix for the first few cycles (3 weeks) as its perscribed for a week as a cycle - now we're using the maracyn, maracyn 2 and I've actually quit the TC as both gram - and gram + are being covered with the others.
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haname
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA

PostPosted: 2006.12.14(Thu)14:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randomly appearing ulcers like this can be a sign of mycobacteriosis (Fish TB), especially if there is necrosis (dead tissue) which is what you have when the area blackens. There isn't any known cure as of yet; antibiotics have not been shown to help. Google fish tb and mycobacteriosis and compare your symptoms with what you read.

You should also read about the danger to humns with myco. To protect yourself, always wash thoroughly with soap and HOT water after handling your tanks.
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2006.12.14(Thu)15:01    Post subject: thanks Reply with quote

I'm hoping that its not Fish TB as he doesn't seem to be showing any symptoms outside of the ulcers. he's eating regularly, chasing his companions like normal, his tummy and fins aren't distorted at all.

all in all he seems to be doing much better after his first two days of treatment with the antibiotics. the ulcers are becoming much smoother and his scales seem like they're attempting to grow back.
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haname
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA

PostPosted: 2006.12.14(Thu)16:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the only external symptom of TB is ulceration. But I do hope your fish responds to the medications and heals completely. TB isn't the only disease that can cause bacterial ulcers. Let's hope yours doesn't have it.

Keep us posted on how it goes.
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samz
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Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Location: leesburg, va

PostPosted: 2007.01.08(Mon)14:53    Post subject: update on angelo Reply with quote

currently angelo is acting completely normal. after a course of the marcyn treatment, we decided to cut treatment for a week and start with the melafix again.

the two spots that he had on his side are quickly disappearing and there doesn't seem to be any infection, soreness, or redness! however, he has developed some pink nodules around his left pectoral fin. they don't seem to be painful, they almost look like pink pom pom's just attached closely to his joint. the melafix seems to be making them smaller, but they have not disappeared.

his water quality is the same. pH is at 7.0, 5ppm nitrates, 0 ammonia. he's acting normally, he even just attempted breeding with his mate, inky - though the eggs didn't last long (we need to buy them a breeding plant).

his appetite is normal, his attitude is gutsy (he loves chasing around the silver dollars), and everything else seems to be in place.

if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I've got some metronidazole and nitrofurazone on the way to me by post. I've been told these work well when things just "can't be fixed". these meds will be a last ditch effort if the melafix continues to not work for these growths.

if I can get him to hold still long enough, I will post a picture of what's currently going on.
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