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Crazy Shubunkins
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no 1 cool dude
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)10:22    Post subject: Crazy Shubunkins Reply with quote

Hello. I wasn't sure where to post this but here goes. My Shubunkins are occationaly swimming around the tank at an incredible speed, zig zagging very fast also. It sometimes rubs itself on the tank walls at plants. Can somebody tell me what is wrong with my fish. I have only been a fish keeper for 1 year now and they were my first fish and I would be devestated to lose them.

Thanks in advance
Craig
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no 1 cool dude
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)10:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, forgot to add that my tank is 100 L, the fish in my tank are the following: 2 Shubunkins (5cm),2 Comets (3cm),1 plain goldfish (1cm),2 Common Plecos (4cm), 2 Clown Loaches (5cm), 1 Rainbow shark (3cm) and 1 male Betta (6cm). The temperature is at 25 C, pH= 8 and I'm not sure what the Nitrites and Nitrates are. The Shubunkins also have torn fins and I've seen 1 Comet and 1 Clown Loach nibbling at it sometimes Shocked . The weird thing is that they were all getting on well with each other a few weeks ago Rolling Eyes . I know I will probably get slayed for mixing Cold and Tropical fish but I'm sure 25 C is inbetween Cold and Tropical so I think it's alright Rolling Eyes .
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JWalk79
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Location: Charlottesville, VA

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)11:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to say this, but from the sounds of what you're keeping it's a pretty full house! I know from experience that even the cheapest and most common goldfish can grow 10"+ in length. Overcrowding could explain why fish might be fin nipping and darting around (they are just trying to find some space!) Also the darting and brushing against the sides f leaves and gravel could be an indication of ick. You might want to check the articles on this site about ick- it looks like small white spots all over the fish. If caught early, it's usually pretty easy to treat. I don't recommend treating the fish until you can confirm it's ick, but just be on the lookout for the symptoms. Sometimes my betta rubs his belly against his plant leaves when he's eaten too much and gets a bit constipated. Embarassed

If you're looking for homes for some of the shubunkins and goldfish try contacting a local pond club. I just donated my two koi to my local club and while I hated to part with them, I couldn't give them the home they needed. I feel good, though, that I gave them to someone who can care for them and give them a good home. They're actually going to live at our local Botanical Gardens!

Hope this helps, it's just my 2 cents. Love to hear what others say on this topic. Smile
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AquariumChicky
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Joined: 08 Jun 2006

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWalk79 is right. I am sorry to say, but your tank is overstocked.

1. Comets, and Shubunkins I have no exprience with so I will let someone else comment on that.

2. Yes. Goldfish are coldwater. It would be best to give it away not only because of different water needs, but they also grow large and it is not recommended to keep them in anything under a 55Gal. (208L)

3. You should also give away the Common Plecs. Common Plec's can get 20+ inches. So, they need very large tanks. You should give them away and get something smaller such as an Otto or a smaller species of Plec.

4. Clown Loaches also get big. They can get up to 12". So, like the Goldfish, and Plec's, they also need larger tanks.

5. The Rainbow Shark also can get up to 5" and most resources suggest that at least a 50gal. tank be provided.

6. Your fish could be acting funny also because Plec's and Goldfish give off a lot of ammonia. Any amount of ammonia is toxic to fish.


If you want to be a fish-KEEPER the best thing to do would be:

1. Give away the Goldfish, Plec's, Clown Loaches, and the Rainbow Shark. I looked up the Comet and the only thing I could find is that it is a type of Goldfish. Go to: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=1041&N=0. IF this is the fish you have, then it should go also. I will let someone else comment on whether the Shunubkin should go or not.

2. Once you have given/sold the fish that need to go, then do some research and come back with some specific questions. That way, we can get your overstocking problem under control.


Remeber. The difference between a fish-HAVER and a fish-KEEPER is keeping fish because you like them, although you can't provide the right enviornment, and keeping fish you like AND providing the correct enviornment.

EDIT TO ADD: Well. I did more research. I FINALLY figured out what a Shunubkin is. They also get big. Both the Shunubkin and Comet can get over 1'. So, I am sorry but both should go. Getting rid of both of these, and the other unsuitable fish will make you a fish-KEEPER. From what I have found:

1. Shunubkin: Needs about 180 Gal Minimum.
2. Comet: Needs about 180 Gal Minimum.
3. Goldfish: Although most books/webpages say 30gal, MOST people will recommend 55+ gal like I mentioned earlier, because MOST Goldfish species have the potential to grow 8+ inches.
4. Clown Loach: Needs about 50 Gal Minimum
5. Common Plec: Most people/books recommend about a 70-125+ depending on the source.
6. Rainbow Shark: Needs about 50 Gal Minimum.
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no 1 cool dude
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)12:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would sell them but 3 thing worry me by doing this.

1. My LFS might keep them all in an even smaller tank Sad .
2. Somebody may buy them and feed them to predatory fish (RD, Piranha etc) Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
3. Or thay might not even accept them.

Should I medicate them for the next few weeks then try and sell them? I will really miss them as I have had them for a year Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad .
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AquariumChicky
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Joined: 08 Jun 2006

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)13:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know. We all miss fish that go to fishyheaven or we have to give up. When I was a noob, I started with a 29 gal with 2 Pink Gourami's, 2 Gold Gourami's, 4 Blue Gourami's, 2 Common Plec's, 3 African Knives, and a Black Ghost Knife. I was horribly overstocked. I kept getting diseases and lost half my stock. I then decided to give the rest of my stock away, and I did. Then, I became a fish-KEEPER and vowed never to make that mistake again. Now I've been able to keep all sorts of fish happy, AND healthy for about 10 years.

If you don't want to give them to your lfs then try to give them to an aquarium. Not all, but MOST aquariums will accept fish that people just can't take care of anymore. OR, you could put an add in the local paper and what doesn't sell, then give to the local aquarium.
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JWalk79
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Location: Charlottesville, VA

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)13:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said in my previous post, don't EVER medicate fish until you can confirm a diagnosis. This leads to unnessesary stress to the fish. I was only tossing ick out as a possibility for why a fish would dart around and scrape against decor.

Also, to reiterate what I said earlier, try finding a local pond society in your area (try a web search or the phone book) to take the shubunkins and comets from you. Then you KNOW they are going to responsable people who can give them a nice home. My koi were being held for a few weeks in a 150 gal quarentine tank with a few rescued comets and shubunkins until they went to the member's ponds and my koi went to our Botanical Gardens. Shubunkins and comets are popular pond fish, which gives you an indication for the type of tanks they need. But I feel happy donating my koi to a responsable pond club because I know they aren't going to end up in a bad situation.
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Barchef
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Location: It changed but I'm not telling you where silly children. :)

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)21:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

gee that is rather overcrowded. I would take the shubukins if you lived closer, I love shubukins, and I think they need a spacious pond to thrive in. I have two, imagining them in a 100l is....disturbing. Its really best not to keep comets, commons, and shubukins in tanks, donate them to a pond owner. As for getting rid of the rest, if you have a responsible lfs then getting rid of them isn't hard. My store always asks what I'm going to keep the fish in, find someplace like that, and sell the fish to them.
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JWalk79
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Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Location: Charlottesville, VA

PostPosted: 2006.07.19(Wed)22:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking a lot about this subject recently for myself, and I just want to add that keeping any animal from horse to dog to fish is about doing what's best for the animal, no matter how hard it is on the person. If someone had a golden retriever and they kept it in a cardboard box it's whole life that would be considered cruel (not to mention illegal) and it's really no different when keeping a fish in a tank that is inappropriate. It's our job as "educated" fishkeeper to teach others about these situations so that fish are provided with habitats suitable for their needs, just like any other living thing. Sure, everyone usually learns a hard lesson along the way about overcrowding and mixing incompatable fish, but it should be our mission to make sure those mistakes don't get repeated by ourselves or by others we have the chance to talk to. Do what's best for your fish (no matter how hard it is and how much you get attached to them), and you'll always feel the satisfaction of knowing you provided the best home and best care you could. Believe me, it can be comforting to know you helped your fishie friends. Smile

I'll get off my soapbox now, but I just wanted to add my thoughts. Very Happy
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no 1 cool dude
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005

PostPosted: 2006.07.20(Thu)1:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm Scottish so if you want to get them from me you have to do a lot of travelling Laughing Laughing Laughing . I'm not sure if I have any pond owners here but I will look anyway. If not I will try my LFS or advertise in the paper. Thanks again guys Cool Cool Cool

PS: I have medication called "Methylene Blue" and it says it treats most fish diseases and the dye is harmless to fish so do you think I should use that? I'm sure it's Ick.
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