Posted: 2006.06.05(Mon)22:35 Post subject: I think we need to get the word out!!!
OK. Lately I've been finding A LOT of cases where people have WAYYY overstocked they're tanks. When asked for advice, they get mad and ignore it. I understand that we cannot make them listen. I do think we need to get the word about AH's opinion on overstocking and such. Just a few examples I've seen lately. (I will retain names.)
1. A Banded Shark in a 125 gallon aquarium. The shark was newly hatched. Although newly hatched, the person was planing on keeping the shark in this tank long term. It is recommended that Banded Sharks be kept in at least a 180 gallon aquarium. They also need expert care, and this person was clearly not an expert.
2. One person was keeping 2 Silver Arrowana's in a 55 gallon aquarium. They said they were trying to get a bigger tank. They said they would keep us updated. They never posted back saying they had gotten the bigger tank. Although I am not quite certain of the minimum tank size needed, I know that it is inhumane to keep 2 fish capable of reaching around 40 inches in a 55 gallon tank.
3. Recently a person was asking about Discus. They had a 29 gallon tank. We told him about how they require excellent water conditions, and would also require a larger tank. Then, someone came on and was telling the person about how someone they knew had once had a pair of Discus in a 29 gallon. This wasn't very good advice, especially since it came from a Moderator. I will still retain names though.
I know that we can't force them to do anything. But I think we should just find some way to let all users know that AH does not tolerate overstocking/stunting growth/improper treatment very well. I don't know about many people, but these are just 3 of the cases I have found on AH over the last few days. I would very much appreciate your opinions, and possibly your backup on this situation.
There's already a sticky up about it. That's about all that anyone can do except for mention it in every thread. Also, I don't think mentioning specific examples (even if you don't say their names) is inappropriate as there are dozens of such topics every week. I know the person with the Arowanas has excellent filtration and I'm pretty sure he's said he's been saving up for the larger tank for quite some time, and I also believe he updated this week on his progress. If you don't like how the person stocks their tank and they ignore your advice, just stop watching the topic. No point in beating a dead horse, imo.
Yes, but it's just one sticky in one topic. I think people should at leat lighten up a bit. If they're tank is overstocked and they ask for advice we tell them the truth. Then, when we tell them the truth they do one of two things: 1. They take our advice and fix the problem creating a happy and healthy aquarium, or 2. They go off and start yelling and saying it's fine and we're wrong. I just think that if some people are going to blow up when they're told they've got they're aquarium stocked wrong or such, then they shouldn't post. I've just seen too many threads where they've started disrepecting people and being rude just because someone told them the pure and simple fact that they're tank is overstocked, they're fish arn't compatible... etc.
I think it would at least help if we stickied the post all ready being used on the Freshwater Basics in a few other topics such as the Saltwater Basics, Marine Fishes and Corals, and Site Issues. What if someone was to join AH for the saltwater part? Then they may not ever see the sticky on overstocking, stunting... etc. I'm not saying we must, I'm just saying it's an idea.
Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Location: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada
Posted: 2006.06.05(Mon)23:19 Post subject:
Sorry, Aquablue, but I am going to have to agree with Ariaanna here. There is already a sticky about it, so there isn't much else to do but warn people.
Mentioning topics that are quite popular is just as bad as mentioning the names. I, being a person with a bad memory, can easily remember the names of the people who posted those posts. No need to point fingers in such a broad concept.
Regarding stocking... Most of the good information on here comes from personal experience, and it doesn't take long to figure out who to trust in this online community. Just to look into the one comment you made about the case with the discus in the 29 gallon... The original comment was made from personal experience of a trustworthy member of the site; one that I would rarely doubt. There is a great thread in the archives that talks about what experienced members thought thought about "over" stocking their tanks. They concluded that there was no such thing as "overstocking", because it was simply a general guideline to keep beginers from destroying their tanks. Many people have had success not stocking their tanks as we normally would, but it is not for the beginner. Of course, you have to provide adequate filtration, etc., but they have made it work.
To conclude this, I must say that people do need to occasionally take a chill pill, as most of us only post to help the others out. I, myself am a firm believer that all of my tanks should be understocked and over filtered, although I believe that it is 100% possible for others to be successful with tanks different from mine. If people do not want to accept the board's beliefs on stocking, I will not reply to their threads, but if they seem like they can handle themselves and have properly equipped tanks for the fish that they own, then I cannot complain about them.
This is only my personal opinion, but I think that we are getting along fine as is. We have all expressed our beliefs on stocking at some point in time, and the majority of us don't like to "overstock" our tanks. I have to agree that there is no such thing as overstocking, as long as your biological filtration can handle it, as well as if the tank is large enough to contain the creature.
Well, I don't think a sticky is very effective. I've been on this site for just over a year now and I haven't read all of the stickies. They're like an instruction manuel for an electronic, most people will skip it because they feel confident that they don't need it.
Maybe we should start something in the registration part of the site. You would input your fish species, how many, and tank size(s). If your tank is overstocked or otherwise poorly stocked, you would instantly go to a certain page before inputting all of your registration info. This page would say something like:"Your tank(s) ha(ve/s) a poor selection of fish. This is not something that is tolerated well on the board. However, if you accept this and are willing to change your stocking level(s) to create an acceptable stocking level through the help of these forums, you are welcome to join. If not, you are not welcome."
Any other ideas? _________________ I would like to acknowledge that all of the info I give is purely based on research.
That is an idea. But I don't think we need to go THAT far though. I do agree that not everyone reads stickies though. Like I said before the sticky on stunting and such is only on the Freshwater Basics. Not everyone will visit the freshwater basics page. That's why I think we should sticky it in a few other forums. Like I have said before, some people do need to take a chill pill.
The stickies are technically mandatory reading for participation on the forum, but there's no way to FORCE everyone to read them. They do all say "Read Before Posting." What you're suggesting, CCS, will probably drive away many people who otherwise could be helped, even if it could be accomplished. Many people who sign up for message boards expect specialized information coming directly from other people. If they wanted to merely read and research, they'd probably just lurk and not bother registering (Lord knows I did for awhile. . . . I think I read every single sticky and about 10 pages of freshwater basics before ever posting a single thing.)
If it really really bothers you, why not link the stickie to these people? I've done it myself, and seen many other members do the same.
IDK. Maybe I'm wrong and there is something else the moderators can do, but I'm fairly certain they're already doing everything in their power to inform the general public, and sitting here arguing about it (and trying to draw attention to them) is really not going to help the situation. Let's just leave them alone to do their job, and not point out the glaringly obvious problems with participants of this forum out to them.
I'm not saying we have to email/pm everyone, put out posters, stuff like that. I just think it would REALLLLLLY help if we stickied that article to other forums.
The shark example I gave earlier, checked on it today. Bad news. The shark doens't have a tank to itself. The tank is all ready going to be toooooooooo small for the shark. But it's also being housed with tangs, damesels, clowns, triggers, and a few others. It's bad enough he's housing clowns with triggers, and clowns and damesels (the first one is just plain out mean for the trigger could eat the clown, and it is a no no to keep clowns AND damsels for they come from the same family, and will fight for territory) But once this shark grows it will eat its tank mates.
This is one of the main reasons I think we should sticky the article in more forums. This just makes me mad. He's all ready got the shark in a too small tank, but he is not an expert. I checked his profile with his tanks. He has kept easier, hardier species, but he has NOOOO experieence with more advancded fish such as Butterfly fish. Sharks are typically left to EXPERTS.
Look. Ariaana. You may think I'm being mean, but this person is just really ticking me off. We've told him he needs to get either a bigger tank and more experience or give the shark to an aquarium. He just won't listen. In terms of fishkeeping most of his fish are beginners fish. The shark is an expert fish. It doesn't get the room, or the proper care that it needs and deserves. How does this make you feel?
The mean isn't you saying it should be stickied everywhere.
It's your specifically bringing him (and the others) up in this thread. I just think it's inappropriate.
Anyways, I've said all I have to say in this thread. Where it goes from this point on is up to you in the moderators. If you want to have a fight with me over this, you can pm me, but I just thought I'd put my two cents in.
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