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bash
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Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: vancouver WA

PostPosted: 2005.06.22(Wed)15:13    Post subject: growing plants Reply with quote

This I my 15gal tank in my daughters room it has yes only 15 watts of light. It
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haname
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA

PostPosted: 2005.06.22(Wed)15:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So my point is I feel we should give people information they can use and not overwhelm them and scare them away.


I agree.

My experience was a little different than what you described. When I first asked here about plants for my low-light tank, I was given completely appropriate answers, and the plants that I purchased based on that advice are all still thriving in my tanks.

The thing is that many different people reply to the questions, some answers are useful and some are not, but also there are lots of opinions in the fishkeeping and planted tank hobby.

If you see a question that you can provide a good answer to, then by all means, post away! Smile If someone posts asking about low-light plants, and another member starts telling the person they need massive light and CO2, you can counter that by replying with a list of low-light plants that have worked well for you and under what conditions. The original poster can then see what makes the most sense to them.
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~Haname
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StormRavin
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Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Burlington, NC USA

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)6:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in total agree meant!! Thank you for putting it so eloquently!! I am also a huge proponent of the low light systems! And as with both of you I am constantly bothered by the fact that some people think that nothing can grow with less that 1.5 wpg of light. And even more bothered by the fact that they are more than happy to give thier uneducated thoughts to someone who is wanting to start using live plants, thus discouraging them from coming to know the satisfaction and beauty of a planted tank!
And I will now stand down from the saop box Very Happy . Just had to get my 2 cents in here! I am very happy that someone was willing clear this up for many people! Thank you for doing so Bash!


Last edited by StormRavin on 2005.06.23(Thu)9:22; edited 1 time in total
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number6
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)8:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree and disagree.
I agree that advice is sometimes pretty limited in its creativity.

I disagree that advice has to be formed in such a way as to not scare a newbie.
I can go on for a page and a half, or link to a document that I hope the new comer will interprete correctly.

all info has to be interpreted, and if I don't think it can be correctly interpreted, then sometimes I might offer advice that seems a little strict or limited.

How fast can a 16year old safely drive a car versus me? If I saw a 16 year old driving 140KM on a highway I might call him a lunatic. That same kid 10 yrs later driving his regular commute? Jsut one of the pack...
Newbie asks what speed he should drive? 100KM per hour, just like it says on the sign kid. Fair? maybe not. Reality, of course.
Laughing
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MattTVI
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)9:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself have given plenty of bad advice on this board... Smile
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benedictj
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Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: new york, ny

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)9:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, iME, it depends on the question, the questioner, and what they are looking for. I think it is fair to say that in some cases, specifically questions about adding carpet plants to low light tanks and adding DIY CO2 to low light tanks, potentially overwhelming folks with info becomes necessary to prevent frustration. You certainly don't want to try to grow glosso at less than 1 wpg or add CO2 to that tank. It would just end in heartache.

Also, it's fair to say that we all really have different approaches to our own tanks, and a lot of that rubs off in the opinions/advice we put forth.
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"Does anyone really need to be told over and over, if you spit in the wind it comes back at you twice as hard?"-Lou Reed
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Steve Hampton
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)11:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I totally agree with the original complaint. However I will say that simply posting a one liner "you need 2 wpg or more light to grow plants" is horrendous advice and offers nothing other than the taking up of forum space.

The contention that lighting levels of 1 wpg or less can be used to grow most plants successfully is simply not true either. There are only a few plants that will survive and thrive under that low of lighting but basically most stem plants will not. Most stem plants grow extremely deformed and leggy under such low light, losing their lower leaves and eventually turing mushy at the base. They may grow for a while but the growth is sickly and ugly, and it's not a good situation for longterm plant health which will equate to longterm fish health. Personally I find growing plants under low light to be a fun challenge and I've got a webpage devoted to doing so successfully longterm.

http://www.aquariaplants.com/lowlighttank.htm

Personally I've seen very few examples of longterm success with plants under less than 1 wpg. The advice of how much light is needed isn't poor advice, but I have seen many times especially of late, where little help is offered and rarely are the goals addressed...just that horrible blanket statement "you need at least 2 wpg to grow plants". Not only is that advice woefully inadequate but is also completely wrong...on so many levels. When someone comes seeking advice they generally aren't coming with a lot of voluntary information either. Until all the facts are in we shouldn't be rendering an opinion or giving advice. Things to know include, tank size, type of lighting, age of lamps, distance of lamps to the water, etc. If someone simply states their plants are dieing and they have 15W over a 15G tank...that's not enough information to determine if lighting is whats lacking. What are the names of the plants that are dieing? It may be the fish eating or picking at the plants. The lamp may be a poor choice and very old or maybe it's incandescent not fluorescent.

My point? Telling people that great success can be had with less that 1 wpg is poor advice. Telling people to upgrade from 1 to 2 wpg is poor advice also unless one gets the whole story. Anyone suggesting that you can't have a beautiful and successful planted tank...longterm without CO2 injection is completely full of baloney. CO2 injection opens the door for allowing more light, which allows greater plant species choice, which is often the natural progression of folks that start planted tanks.
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number6
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)13:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Hampton wrote:
Anyone suggesting that you can't have a beautiful and successful planted tank...longterm without CO2 injection is completely full of baloney.
Anyone else have trouble with the double negative here? Laughing
That's an awesome response Steve. I miss some of these solid and complete responses from you. I don't think there's been one in a while!

Right now, my fave tank is my little 2.5g, excel driven, with 13w 4100K CF light.
Anubias, java fern. moss, e.tennelus and a red lotus (lily).
why? no filter, no ferts, no fish. just snails and shrimp happily doing their little thing.

my least fave is the 50W over 20g, DIY CO2 as its so much work to maintain.
just shows an example of your point. Wattage alone is about as much useful info as some of the advice we've seen lately. Very Happy
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bash
Members


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: vancouver WA

PostPosted: 2005.06.23(Thu)19:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all these posts and I think every one I hope understands what I was trying to say
Quote:
The advice of how much light is needed isn't poor advice, but I have seen many times especially of late, where little help is offered and rarely are the goals addressed...just that horrible blanket statement "you need at least 2 wpg to grow plants".


Steve hit it right on.

Giving advice on how to do it better is great, but also answering the question at hand is the goal. imo
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