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FAQ: Scratching fish/white spots...is it Ich? What to do?
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Hasi
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Location: Australia - Melbourne

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)8:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Also have an outbreak of ich because of adding non - quarantined fish to my tank. I said to myself I would never buy a fish from a chain retailer but I went against my own will to purchase a fish I couldn't get at my LFS. Boy did I make a mistake.

I am trying the heat treatment, currently my temp is at 31 degrees.

It does seem to be working although it is a longer process or maybe because this is my first experience with ich that it seems like that.

I raised the temp by 1 - 2 degrees everyday until it was above 86 degrees farenheit (30 degrees). I am trying this method because I really think that meds are harmful to fish and because I have scaleless fish (Clown loaches and BN plecs), but then again the stress of temp change can also be harmful. So far fish are doing well and I'm keeping a close constant watch.

It seems that with this method the fish that initially introduced ich are overcoming it (been 4 days now) but the fish have also attained ich, some overcoming it gradually and some just getting spots.

I will give this another 5 or so days and then either try salt or meds which I don't really want to do but we will see how it goes.
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Ryan Yates
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)8:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd advise you to use salt if you are worried about meds with your clowns, and another word of warning, if the heat isn't hot enough then you're just speeding up the life cycle and causing more and more ich to grow and reproduce. Heat should be used with meds or salt.

My bristlenose is doing just fine in water with 2 tsp/gal of normal table salt. Many people advise against using it because it is iodised, but for the iodine to affect the fish you would have to add enough salt to basically pickel them. Just add the salt slowly as mentioned in the article in my other post.

HTH
Ryan
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Hasi
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Location: Australia - Melbourne

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)9:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I don't see any further improvement within two days I will try the addition of salt.

Ryan how do you add your salt? Do you mix a quarter tbl.spn for every gal (as much as bucket lets you hold) into a bucket first and then add it to your tank every hour as the site states? Or do you use another method?

Thanks in advance
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haname
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)14:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salt is hard on clown loaches and other scaleless fishes. I would probably give Quick Cure a try. They recommend you use half the dose with tetras.

The longer you allow untreated ich to progress, especially with raised temp which speeds up the life cycle, the more damage is done to the fish.
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~Haname
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Ryan Yates
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)16:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

haname: Most of the sources I have read say that salt is no more harmful than other ich meds that include formalin or malachite green. Table salt is as cheap as anything and pretty much everyone will have it on hand all the time, which is why I recommended it. Obviously salt should not be used long term with any freshwater fish (especially smooth skinned ones) but that goes for meds too.

Hasi: All I did was syphon some water out of the tank into a bucket. Then I worked out how many teaspoons of salt I'd need to get 15 gallons of water (my tank size) up to 0.25 teaspoons per gallon, it worked out to about 3.75 teaspoons of salt. I mixed in roughly 3.5 teaspoons of salt into the water, and slowly syphoned it back into the tank (by raising the bucket above the tank).

After an hour had elapsed (actually more like an hour and a half) I repeated the procedure three more times over the next 3 hours (taking salt content up to 1 tsp/g). I slowed down with the treatments after hitting the 1 tsp/gal mark, and then did them every few hours, until I had added 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon. All in all I added about 30 teaspoons of salt in a day or two. It helps to start treatment in the morning so that you only spend one day adding salt.

HTH
Ryan
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Hasi
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Location: Australia - Melbourne

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)21:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess all treatments will affect fish in one way or another. I didn't want to use Meds or Salt for the benefit of my tetras (I have a lot), clown loaches and BNs. Heat treatment is working for me, but can differ for others from what I have read.

Today is the 5th day the temp is at 31degrees and my RTBS is free of ich and so are many of the tetras that had minor number of spots. There is only 2 neons with spots left so I will stick to this method for now but if I see no benefit then I will add salt, thanks Ryan.

Note that I raised the temp at 1-2 degree everyday until I got to 31degrees. I have put my filter above the water for surface agitation and to add extra oxygen to the tank.
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Hasi
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Location: Australia - Melbourne

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)21:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few articles

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
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haname
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA

PostPosted: 2005.06.14(Tue)23:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan Yates wrote:
haname: Most of the sources I have read say that salt is no more harmful than other ich meds that include formalin or malachite green. Table salt is as cheap as anything and pretty much everyone will have it on hand all the time, which is why I recommended it. Obviously salt should not be used long term with any freshwater fish (especially smooth skinned ones) but that goes for meds too.


Some fish are not tolerant to salt, and there is some controversy about the tolerance of loaches to salt. Different people have different experiences, and this may be due to other factors in the water chemistry from different sources affecting how a given kind of fish responds to the addition of salt.

Loaches online has an article about salt treatment for clown loaches, written by someone who has had experience treating for parasites using salt.

Another writer says that loaches are not tolerant in his experience.

One potential problem with table salt mentioned in the Loaches Online article is the anti-caking ingredient yellow prussiate of soda (sodium ferrocyanate or sodium hexocyanoferrate or tetrasodium hexacyanoferrate) which contains cyanide and may be toxic to fish. Salt is useful and often safer than meds, but why use salt that contains potentially toxic additives, since one major reason we use salt is to avoid the toxicity of meds?
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~Haname
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Ryan Yates
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2005.06.15(Wed)1:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hasi: My tank has black neon tetra's, bronze cories, a betta and a BN pleco. They all made it through 2 weeks of salt at 2 tsp/gal (twice!) without any problems. I now have a Q-tank, so hopefully they won't get ich again.

Haname: I wasn't really looking to pick a fight, and I know you weren't either. I was just stating what I had read in some forums. I suppose the important thing to check for is the presence of that anti caking agent, if one does decide to use table salt to treat ich.
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Hasi
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Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Location: Australia - Melbourne

PostPosted: 2005.06.15(Wed)4:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely will be investing in a Q-tank. I recommend to all fishkeepers a Q-tank, at first you think to yourself (as I did) that it is unnecessary to have a q-tank but one day you will see the benefit of having one.
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