again, I'm waiting on Sergio's response as to whether it is in fact real coral or imitation... And besides that, many people DO display the skeletons of dead animials w/ pride, how many times have you seen a cow skull hanging on a wall, etc... Coral DIES all the time, if you display coral that you found dead on the beach, that is far different from taking a living coral out of the ocean and killing it, bleaching it, and then displaying it. _________________ 65g Future Anemone Home
Some people don't like the dead corals, think is a crime to have it.
I don't think so : fist for people how has reef tank how many times do you buy a coral and the coral die ?
How many corals die in the sea everyday ?
HOW MANY CORALS DIE DURING THE TRAVEL FROM THE OCEAN TO THE STORE.
SO ANYWAY YOU ARE ALSO RESPONSABLE FOR A LOT OF CORALS DEATH BECAUSE IF YOU BUY THE STORE WILL GONNA ORDER MORE.
so don't tell me dead corals is a crime, could be but you are also a criminal. because is not just corals but fishes inverts etc die during the travel from the sea to the store.
I DON'T WANT TO BE MEAN, that's just my opinion you accept if you want of course.
by the way my fishes is very health a lot more then a lot of reef tank I alread saw.
and how many people is beable to keep a powder blue for 7 month like mine, and very health. IF YOU NEVER HAD A POWDER BLUE TANG IN YOUR REEF TRY IT AND LET'S SEE HOW LONG HE GONNA LAST IN YOUR TANK.
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Posted: 2005.05.07(Sat)9:01 Post subject:
wow everybody needs to take a chill pill. its just me but personally collecting dead sps coral skeletons is not a good thing, its not a crime but it would be better if they were left on the shore. even if its dead it should stay on the reef, thats how a reef gets built!
however the idea that someone would harvest and sps coral to simply kill it and bleach it is something that is very wrong though I highly doupt that sergio did that.
also food for though, I personally search out for frags of corals that have been in peoples tanks a long time, their healthier, hardier and it promotes the propogation and trading of corals among hobbiests. also my clownfish is tank raised.
though I have to say your fish do seem heatlhy. and the setup is clean.
In some areas, it IS a crime to collect corals for the purpose of "ornamental" trade.
Coral mortality with live, wild colonies remains somewhat high. However, these corals are NOT collected in 18" lengths, which is a VERY mature piece, but in small fragments meant to fit within and grow within our tanks. Such collection has no known impact on reef ecology. The same can not be said for mass collection of large pieces to be displayed as dead skeletons. Artificials are now widely available for those that "like the look" and to not use them in lieu of "the real [dead] thing" is unconscienable.
What dies on the reef natrually is one thing, when a huge and obviously healthy colony is broken apart for aquarists to have a two foot piece of coral in their tank is entirely another. It's very sad, I think, that you do not see these things as being different.
Many of the corals we now by are captive propagated on coral farms, largely due to the efforts of men like Walt Smith. The trend today is towards responsibility and sustainable harvest. In large part, those of us who support this are "succeeding" more and more each day. Unfortunately, there are still "throw backs" to a "less enlightened" time who see no problem in the destruction of coral reef ecology for their own amusement, even when alternatives are available. So, if a coral from a farm dies on the way to the store, there's no impact on a wild reef.
Well, I don't know about most aquarists, by my deaths have been limited to unforeseen events (power outages, etc.) or "trying" captive propped corals (like a Hydnophora purchased from another aquarist as a "frag" that was immediately eaten by my PT). Things of that nature are unavoidable. And, of course, wherever possible, I will always by captive fragged pieces, not wild caught.
Dead corals, their trade, IS a crime in many areas. Collection for the purpose is a crime in many areas even where live collection for live sale is still allowed. There are very good reasons why this is the case. FWIW, 2 foot branches, tossed about by waves, are virtually never that large once they "wash up". Hurricanes can sometimes cause this, but it's generally very uncommon otherwise. Certainly there are not enough such pieces to support a trade that is virtually dead in the US.
Some mortality of some animals is unavoidable. The point is to try and reduce that mortality, as organizations like MAC are trying to do. Your tank, Sergio, does not support this, but aims towards the opposite pole, intentionally destroying animals for display. Again, big, huge difference.
Having "a lot more [fish]" is nothing to brag about, BTW. It doesn't make you successful. Nor does "7 months". Do you realize that if you bragged about keeping your child alive for a proportionate period of time, you would be bragging about your child living to the ripe old age of 28 months? Sorry, that's not success, not by any sense of the word. When you can count in at least half decades, then start talking about success. I haven't tried a PBT yet, but I see no reason why it would be any different than any other "difficult" fish like, say, a Spotted Mandarin. I bought my first, last, and only one of those almost 4 years ago and she's still doing exceptionally well today. _________________ Kieron Dodds
TFH Magazine's Official Web Forum
In regards to the comment made about cattle skulls hanging on the wall, the only way you can use that as a direct analogy is if the price paid for those things was the taking the creatures life to get it.
Kieron is absolutely correct. Having lived in Fort Lauderdale until just recently I can attest to the fact that the condition of the coral reef off the shores of South Florida is critical and is suffering more losses now than ever before in history due to the poaching of tourists who think nothing of snapping off a chunk or two to take home as a souvenir for their trip to Florida. In addition, researchers are always amazed at the pollution caught on the reefs in the form of cans, bottles, etc that take a significant toll over time. When walking on the boardwalk in Key West, bleached coral is on the shelf of every gift store while students and researchers at the University of Miami, Nova University, Florida International University, USF, and every other Marine Biology Department study the staggering damage done and some even say the reefs will never be the same again due to human interference. The power of the tourist dollar is amazing.
IMO, it doesn't matter if the coral is store-bought or hand-picked, if it is in fact "bleached coral", it is unethical to it keep in our tanks and the ecological price paid for that cosmetic luxury can never be replaced. We are taught by our very own Marcos Avila that there is a big difference in being "fish-keepers" and being "fish-havers" ... is there any difference in that distinction because we are talking about coral instead of fish ? _________________ cindywindy
TFH Magazine's Webforum
my point is that there is a BIG difference between finding dead coral washed up on the shore and actually taking it out of the ocean. I have no problem w/ the first but lots of issues w/ the second. _________________ 65g Future Anemone Home
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Posted: 2005.05.21(Sat)19:19 Post subject:
But what about live rock? Is it still taken from reefs?
some still might be, but one of the ways they make live rock now adays is a company will rent a slice of the ocean off a goverenment. they will get barge and take lots and lots of sutuiable rock with them. they dump it in the ocean and leave it for a little while while invertabrates start calling it home. then they come back and collect the rock.
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