Thanks for saying something marcos. I was going to comment but I didn't exactly know how to phrase what I was going to say in a polite way. And I agree in 1 way with Sherry but I have to say this.....as the dogs grew up they probably wouldnt even use the kennel at all
Prakash you were right in saying "I know it might sound to small for too many fish." It not only sounds TOO small but it even looks too small.
I have to agree with everything that marcos has said.......sorry
Yeah! I realize the problem. I will move them to a bigger tank soon. But actually I have been doing water changes frequently. I think this is the first time someone has been able to put these ideaas through to me. Actually it is a sentimental issue for me. That was the first tank I bought and I keep it in my office. I realize my folly now and probably I will get my friends also to follow suit. We Indians are still amateurs in this hobby. Just following blindly what the aquarist has been saying. Let me tell you what my aquarist told me when I bought this tank:
You can have upto 25 pairs of fish in this tank
Thats what I have been doing all these years. I use this tank whenever I want to try a new community combination. Good that I posted this picture professionals like you are able to comment and correct me. If I have offended anyone please forgive me.
Anyways can you tell me how the tank setup is in general? How many fish I can have?
Marcos and Sherry I would be glad if one of you can say something on this!!
If deleting my topic from the forum would help, Just do it. I don't want to set a bad example out of ignorance. Probably I'll post some new pics with optimum number of fish in the tank soon. Once again I apologise for this.
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Posted: 2005.03.09(Wed)2:26 Post subject:
as I read through it I was slowly horified at their living conditions. 1 they need different temps, 2 need different pH levels, 3 the size of there world would be like us living in a 6ftx6ftx6ft room, cramped and uncomfortable.
Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Location: Santo Andre (Brazil)
Posted: 2005.03.09(Wed)3:54 Post subject:
Where to start? OK, I'll just extract random snippets of your posts and comment on them individually:
Yeah! I realize the problem. I will move them to a bigger tank soon.
If you realize that there's a problem, then why are you showing off your tank in the Photo Album section, including statements like "they've gone together so well", "there's been no problem at all" and "I guess the tank is healthy"?
We Indians are still amateurs in this hobby.
Good that I posted this picture professionals like you are able to comment and correct me.
First of all please don't generalize your personal case to your entire country. I know for a fact that there are very good fishkeepers in India, and just as well there is good and bad fishkeeping in every country in the world. This discussion is about YOU and YOUR tanks, not about your country.
Second, you are quite mistaken in using the word amateur as a synonym for someone who doesn't keep fish properly, and the word professional as a synonym for someone who does. Proper fishkeeping and the level of amateurism/professionalism in the aquarium hobby are almost completely unrelated, and if any connection were to be made, I would feel that amateurs actually tend to be better fishkeepers than professionals. And BTW, with extremely rare exceptions, everyone on this board (including me) are amateur fishkeepers.
But actually I have been doing water changes frequently.
That is probably the only reason those fish were even able to make it through the 3 months you claim they've been in there. But water changes don't solve territoriality and aggressiveness issues, nor incompatibilities of water preferences, nor will it prevent your fish from completely outgrowing the tank.
Each and every one of those mbunas will require more space to claim as its territory than the entire tank has to offer. In fact, mbunas aren't community fish at all and need to be kept in specialized tanks, that's why we have a Cichlids and Cichlid Tanks forum in the board.
Each and every carp in that tank will try to grow larger than the tank itself. These are not aquarium community fish either, they're coldwater pond fish and that's why we have a separate forum for Goldfish, Koi and Ponds on the board.
Anyways can you tell me how the tank setup is in general? How many fish I can have?
It's hard to answer these questions without knowing any details of the tank setup - filtration, lighting, heating, water parameters, maintenance routines...tell us all you can about it. As a very crude initial estimation, based only on your claim that the tank is 20"x9"x10" and therefore 30 liters, you'd be able to raise into adulthood and keep for several years 6-10 true community fish that do not grow larger than 3-5 cm in that tank.
I think I have the solution. I am converting this tank into a Mbuna tank and look for a bigger tank for the rest.
OK, here's some homework for you: read the Gallery profiles and Board topics about mbuna basics and then come back and tell us why this is a terrible solution _________________
Success with a fish/tank is measured in YEARS, not months or weeks...
You know, the only way I can say this nicely and yet truthfully is to give you an example. Let's say you loved dogs, and decided that you'd like to raise dogs. And lets say that you purchased a kennel about, oh, 15 by 12 feet, and then put into that kennel a Great Dane, 2 Labradors, 2 jack russel terriers and a Siberian Husky.
You might be alright for the first few months, but as time went on, the task of cleaning the thing would be outrageous. The dogs would become crowded as they grew, and intolerant of each other as thier hormones grew in pace. Soon there would be fights, stress, injuries, infections from unsanitary conditions...ect and so forth. Anyone can see that in time, this situation could not be maintained with the dogs still in good health and happiness.
The example of the dogs is outrageous enough to sound ridiculous..who would do such a foolish thing? And yet, by stocking a tank that small with those fish, you are making a similar mistake. 3 months is not long enough to gauge if a tank is healthy, or fish well adjusted. Please reconsider your tank.
You could probably apply this analogy with some humans I know.
Please stop this. I can take it no more. Please delete this topic from the forum. I think it is increasingly getting personal. If someone can make some suggestions to me do it. My remarks about Indian Fish Keepers and Fish havers have been misunderstood. I have been a fish keeper for the past decade. I have my own ways of doing things. In the past also I have made my stand clear on what I do when a fish outgrows it's tank. The same goes with aggression. Some may not have been acceptable to many around the world. My techniques are time tested. I have been taking all your criticism constructively. You don't need to bring in dogs, human beings into comparison for that sake. It does'nt sound good.
Mr.Marcos you have been talking about visitors getting misguided when they read my postings. But the way people have been commenting on it has made it look even more ugly. The saddest part is some of the moderators are involved in this.
I can't say that your methods of keeping fish are right. Generally because in this case I think their wrong. People have already stated that if you don't like what people are going to say about your tank then you should post it on the board.
You don't need to bring in dogs, human beings into comparison for that sake. It does'nt sound good.
I don't agree, because as I and others have just posted in the thread on the Cichlids forum, people wouldn't put dogs in conditions which are unsuitable for them, and in my opinion people shouldn't do it with fish.
But the way people have been commenting on it has made it look even more ugly. The saddest part is some of the moderators are involved in this.
I'm sorry but the moderators, are here for a reason. The reason is so they can moderate the topics on this forum. But also so they can advise people on what to do. In this case, Marcos and the moderators are right (they are rarely wrong). If you don't like what they are saying, then why bother posting. Marcos is trying to educate people in how to keep fish properly, and provide people with the correct knowledge on how to care for fish in the aquarium.
Also how can you generalise on how people keep fish in one country?
I'm sure there are lots of people in India who would disagree with your selection too.
If someone can make some suggestions to me do it.
Remove all those fish from that tank because -
1) They all will outgrow the tank, or being in a tank that small will stunt their growth
2) You can't mix tropicals with coldwater, they require different water temperatures
3) They all require different water conditions (pH, hardness etc.)
4) Malawi Mbuna, are not community fish. They will probably kill/injure some of the others
5) As Marcos has already stated, Carp belong in ponds, not small community aquariums.
I don't think theres anymore that needs to be said on this one.
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