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paisley
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Joined: 24 Feb 2012

PostPosted: 2012.02.27(Mon)15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you are seeing ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, your tank is close to cycled and might even be able to handle the bioload of a single betta without issue. Just do the large water change (or lots and lots of smaller ones) and put the betta in, making sure to acclimate him to the warmer temperature.[/quote]

Just a quick note, I am not seeing ammonia in the tank at all. In fact, the last time I dosed the tank up to 4ppm the ammonia was back to 0ppm in 12 hours!!Smile I take that as a good thing Very Happy since that would indicate that there are enough bacteria to sustain a pretty large bioload. My only concern is that the Nitrites would be harmful to my betta. I say this b/c even when I test his (death) cube water it has a reading of:

pH: 6.6-6.8
Ammonia: .50ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm--->so this makes me think that even though there is ammonia in his water come w/c time (daily 100%) that there isn't enough time for the cycle (ammonia converting into Nitrite) to get going...which is good but also would mean he isn't used to Nitrites at all.?? Is that right?

I plan on using a drip acclimation for introducing him (and any other fish I may add in the future for that matter) to the new tank/water parameters. Have you heard of this method? Anyways roughly over a 2hr period I will have a 1 drip/per second coming out of the 10gallon tank, via cyphon, into the bucket that he will be in for this. He will have a small amount of his water in the bucket and then the drip will start. This way he hopefully won't go into shock from a pH or other water parameter/temp change.
I am going to begin another water change right now. But what if I can't get the Nitrites down?? Should I add more sodium bicarbonate, even though that seemed to do nothing the first time?? Or is it safe to add the betta to my 10 gallon tank with 2ppm Nitrites? I just don't want to shock him or make him more depressed/unhealthy. One more quick question, when I add him if he were actually sick with something, would it ruin the whole 10 gallon set up thus far? I am really worried about that too. I almost feel like going out and buying a HUGE vase that I really like and planting it w/live plants and putting him in there. I only say that b/c I ready the thread on here about bettas and it said they might not like a filter.? I only have an Aqueon 10 for the 10 gallon so I am hoping it won't bug him that much.
Thank you for your quick replies,
Paisley
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nikelodeon79
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Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.

PostPosted: 2012.02.27(Mon)16:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

paisley wrote:
so this makes me think that even though there is ammonia in his water come w/c time (daily 100%) that there isn't enough time for the cycle (ammonia converting into Nitrite) to get going...which is good but also would mean he isn't used to Nitrites at all.?? Is that right?

Well, fish can't really get used to ammonia or nitrites... they are dangerous at any levels. I am thinking (and hoping) that you technically HAVE both kinds of bacteria in your almost-cycled 10g (the kind that convert ammonia to nitrite and the kind that convert nitrite to nitrate) and once the relatively SMALL bioload of a betta is added, your biological filter will be able to handle it and you won't see ANY ammonia or nitrites. If you do see either one, do a large-ish water change.

Quote:
I plan on using a drip acclimation for introducing him (and any other fish I may add in the future for that matter) to the new tank/water parameters. Have you heard of this method? Anyways roughly over a 2hr period I will have a 1 drip/per second coming out of the 10gallon tank, via cyphon, into the bucket that he will be in for this. He will have a small amount of his water in the bucket and then the drip will start. This way he hopefully won't go into shock from a pH or other water parameter/temp change.

I have heard of the method and do use it on occasion, however, I am slowly coming around to the mindset that in some cases, getting them into the tank as quickly as possible overrides any potential "shock" from pH/gh/KH change. My thought process is this:

In a situation where you've ordered a fish and it's been shipped to you, it's spent a minimum of 12-24 hours in a bag, which is now filled with ammonia. You put that fish into a bucket and when the ammonia comes in contact with the different pH of your water, it becomes more toxic and the fish is now swimming in that highly toxic ammonia mixture for the entire 2 hour acclimation period. This also applies if you aren't able to get RIGHT home from the LFS after purchasing your fish: there is going to be some level of ammonia in the bag.

In a situation where the fish is going right from the LFS to your tank, the simple thing to do is to test the pH/gh/KH of the bag water to determine how different it is from your tank water. If it's close, the only real acclimation you'll need to do is temperature. If it's different, drip acclimation can be used but I would do NO MORE than one hour, and I usually do closer to 30-45 minutes. Being dumped from the bag to the bucket and then netted into the tank is stressful, too!

So, really, depending on different varying factors, perhaps the best method is the old fashioned "float the bags" method BUT keep in mind that your LFS may have cleaned their counter with nasty chemicals and you do NOT want those in your tank (yet another complication).

What I do is this: if a fish has not spent much time in the bag and the water chemistry is greatly different, I will use the drip acclimation method for about 30 minutes and then will net them and put them in my tank.

If the fish has spent more time in the bag (hours) I float the bags (if I trust there's no chemicals on them) and then dump the fish from the bag into a net (with a bucket underneath to catch the nasty water) and then add them directly to my tank.

If the bag has the potential to have chemicals on it, I put the fish into a safe, floatable container and float that instead of the original bag.

In your situation, the fish is going from the same water (pH may be slightly different due to the pH changes in a cycling tank) so I would just float his betta cube if it's floatable until the temps have equalized and then dump him in.

Quote:
I am going to begin another water change right now. But what if I can't get the Nitrites down?? Should I add more sodium bicarbonate, even though that seemed to do nothing the first time??

diademhill is far more experienced than I am... I believe she recommended adding the sodium bicarbonate? I've never had to deal with that before since I've never had a "stalled" cycle. Are you 100% sure your test is accurate? Maybe take a water sample to a LFS that does testing with liquid reagents (if you have one nearby) and see what results they come up with?

Quote:
Or is it safe to add the betta to my 10 gallon tank with 2ppm Nitrites?

No.. that's pretty high in the nitrite department and wouldn't be good for him. I can't imagine a large water change NOT bringing the nitrites down so here's hoping...

Quote:
One more quick question, when I add him if he were actually sick with something, would it ruin the whole 10 gallon set up thus far? I am really worried about that too.

I really don't think there are a lot of diseases out there that will ruin an entire setup to the point where it would have to be completely redone. I have had various diseases in my tanks (ich, columnaris, etc.) and they've always run their course and then been gone, never to be heard from again. I would simply keep the bette alone until you're sure the tank is cycled (or at least two weeks have gone by) and then slowly stock with your additional fish (provided they are compatible with the betta and won't overstock your tank).

Quote:
I almost feel like going out and buying a HUGE vase that I really like and planting it w/live plants and putting him in there. I only say that b/c I ready the thread on here about bettas and it said they might not like a filter.?

The betta will be no better off in a vase than in the cube: the only difference is that it will be more of a pain for you to do 100% water changes in, since that would still be required.

Bettas do not do well in a lot of flow, but in a 10g tank there are generally "dead" areas he will be able to escape to. Provided you don't have crazy high current, He should be fine.

Quote:
I only have an Aqueon 10 for the 10 gallon so I am hoping it won't bug him that much
.
That filter should be fine with just a betta in the tank, but if you plan to stock with any additional fish (small tetras, etc.), I fear it will not be adequate. I actually really like Duetto100 filters for 10g betta tanks: the flow can be turned WAY down and they are fully submersible so you can have a tight fitting hood.
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paisley
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PostPosted: 2012.02.27(Mon)18:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did a 50% w/c and tested and Nitrite: 2-5ppm! Crying or Very sad It didn't go down at all!! So now I am going to put my cyphon tube out the bedroom window and do a 100% w/c down to the substrate and retest right away and if it's not down....I don't know what I will do.? I will post back in an hour or so after it is done and tested and post the results.
Paisley
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unissuh
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2012.03.01(Thu)5:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hows the Betta going?

If you're getting nitrite readings but no ammonia with the little guy in there - dose 1-2 tsps of salt in there (whatever you have on hand will do, even cooking salt).

Keep going with the water changes too - just add equivalent amount of salt removed in the new water.
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paisley
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PostPosted: 2012.03.02(Fri)18:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi~
I did 2 different 100% w/c's after all the initial one's that I posted and was able to get the Nitrite 0ppm reading BEFORE putting my betta in Very Happy He has been in there for a few days now and seems to be fine but his fins are still really cramped Sad I am not sure why?? The temp on the tank is 79 degrees and he is still really into eating so I just don't understand why his fins are so cramped? Anyways the tank is doing fine with him in there. No w/c's since he was added and still Nitrite 0ppm Nitrate 10ppm and Ammonia 0ppm.
I do have one question though. I have live plants in that are "low light" plants since I only have a 15Watt light in the hood. My question is, do betta's need a "nighttime" or can I leave the light on in the tank at night? I have been having it on during the day and am considering leaving it on at night too for the plants but I don't want to stress the fish. Any input would be great. The tank is in my son's room and he would like to use it as a "nightlight" instead of the wall nightlight that he currently has, he also wants to watch the fish as he falls asleep Razz I need to know if this would be alright to do, or should I shut off the light during the day since there is natural light in the room? I do live in the Pacific Northwest so there isn't a ton of natural light coming in:)
Thanks,
Paisley
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unissuh
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PostPosted: 2012.03.02(Fri)19:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, he needs a night time - so do the plants actually. Best to turn it on and off to simulate day/night. You can shift the day/night cycles back a few hours if you want the light to be on while he goes to sleep, but thats about it.
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paisley
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PostPosted: 2012.03.02(Fri)22:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay one more question. I just tested the pH on the tank and it was at 7.6 so I then tested using the high range pH and it was 7.8. What is a normal pH for a planted freshwater tank? What pH does a betta prefer? I noticed that one of the plants had died so I removed it from the water. The other plants look pretty good, some of the leaves on one of them has brown circle spots?? Is the pH too high for the plants? Also I noticed that there was white fuzzy mold looking stuff growing on the Mopani wood that I have in there, is that normal?
Thank you,
Paisley
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unissuh
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PostPosted: 2012.03.03(Sat)17:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

High, but if it is stable I wouldn't fiddle with it. The plants should be fine with that pH.

Don't worry about the white snot, it' probably just a fungus that grows on new driftwood. It will go away in a couple of weeks by itself or you can syphon it out.
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nikelodeon79
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PostPosted: 2012.03.05(Mon)17:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

My pH is around 7.6-7.8 out of the tap and my bettas have done just fine.

Can you take a picture of him? It could be just that he needs a bit more time in good conditions.
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paisley
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PostPosted: 2012.03.05(Mon)19:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have the photos on my computer now, how do I go about getting them on here?? I thought I saw a sticky on one of the forums with a "how to" but when I went searching for it I couldn't find it again Sad Let me know and I will post it for you. Also, can we post video? I took a short video of the betta swimming if that would be more helpful?
Thanks,
P
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