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Fish_Hobbiest
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Location: Viola, Arkansas

PostPosted: 2011.02.20(Sun)19:38    Post subject: Leaving! Reply with quote

I am informing all admins that I am leaving this forum, but I do want to thank the ones that answered my questions about my saltwater tank. I thought I had found a good forum, but it seems that people seem to think I'm an idoit and don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to freshwater tanks.

So I will excuse myself out of this forum, and hopefully, maybe someone will find what they need.

As to Bigwill, I really do pray that you find your answers. Do your research, that's the only true way your going to find the answers you want! Research when it comes to fish tanks is the best method to making sure that you have the best set up you can.

Another method is to do what the hell you want, it's your fish, your tank. And make sure you have plenty of live plants, hiding places and such. Otherwise, it doesn't matter what type of fish you have, your going to have a lot of stress!


So goodbye everyone. I hope that things are better for people than it is for me!!!
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Flame Angel
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: 2011.02.21(Mon)2:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one was trying to be rude. Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean it is a personal attack or they think you are an idiot. Everyone is just trying to look at it from different perspectives (supplemented with articles from people outside of this forum, just like you did) in order to ensure that fish are well taken care of and that someone doesn't get a shock later down the track when they have a tank crash or their favourite fish suddenly carks it. It's all part of discussion, often leading to a much better end result.

I'm sure there are many people who agree with you on the stunting issue, including on this forum. Also, I know many people abide by the ''one inch per gallon" rule, but it obviously has its limitations, especially when it comes to larger fish (for example 10 inches of neon tetras will clearly have a much smaller impact on a system than a 10 inch oscar). I'm aware that this rule is still recommended by numerous articles and experienced fish-keepers, however there are just as many explaining why it shouldn't be used for most aquariums.
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Fish_Hobbiest
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Location: Viola, Arkansas

PostPosted: 2011.02.21(Mon)10:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flame Angel wrote:
No one was trying to be rude. Just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't mean it is a personal attack or they think you are an idiot. Everyone is just trying to look at it from different perspectives (supplemented with articles from people outside of this forum, just like you did) in order to ensure that fish are well taken care of and that someone doesn't get a shock later down the track when they have a tank crash or their favourite fish suddenly carks it. It's all part of discussion, often leading to a much better end result.

I'm sure there are many people who agree with you on the stunting issue, including on this forum. Also, I know many people abide by the ''one inch per gallon" rule, but it obviously has its limitations, especially when it comes to larger fish (for example 10 inches of neon tetras will clearly have a much smaller impact on a system than a 10 inch oscar). I'm aware that this rule is still recommended by numerous articles and experienced fish-keepers, however there are just as many explaining why it shouldn't be used for most aquariums.


You knwo I agree stunting the fish to grow because you don't have the right tank is wrong. But I also do know that the fish that were in question would fit into the 100 gallon tank. I did the research, I saw how big they would get. And the only thing one person would talk about is "Fish Stress" well I know what fish stress is. He linked me something and I found a better article. I felt as if it was a direct attack on myself. I have been raising fish for a very long time. I know what can be put into what tank, and I know what shouldn't be. But with a 100 gallon tank and the fish that the guy had, he could put them in there. The biggest ones he had would only get to be 12 inches long. That's not a very big fish for a 100 gallon tank. Plus on top of that, he said they were the size of his thumb. And the only thing that this one person (I don't want to name any names.) wanted to talk about was stress in the tank. I know lots about that. When I first started it took a lot of research.

I have 3 books. I have one for my 75 gallon fish/reef tank, I have 1 for my 29 gallon freshwater tank and I have one for my 3 gallon nano tank. And everyone of them has the chemicals from every other day in it. It has the information off the internet for each type of fish that I have, and on top of that it even has different types of diseases fish can get and how to cure them.

So yes, I felt it was a direct attack on myself. And I am not saying I am perfect when it comes to things, but when it comes to freshwater fish, I know what I'm talking about. I even went as far as doing the math for the guy to show him how many inches of fish he would have (at full grown) and how much it would take to completly fill that 100 gallon tank. And yet, I still was being attacked about "stress". So maybe not everyone on here is that bad, but at the same time, I'm not sure that it's a good idea that I stick around. I am just the "noob" to this forum, and the other guy had been here a lot longer than me.

I'm sure everyone thinks I'm some dude, but I'm not, I'm a female. And well, I guess maybe I took it a little different, but I truely did feel it was a direct attack on myself. When I read the stuff to my husband, he thought the same thing. The topic had gotten out of hand. The guy didn't want to kow about all the stress in the tank, he wanted a simple "Yes or No" answer to his question. Not some long discussion about "stress".

I am sorry that I had felt that way, I will keep an eye on other forums and I will try to help a little more than before. But I am telling you now Mr/Mrs Flame Angel, the next time I feel as if someone is doing a direct attack on me, I will not be so nice.

I am a sweet person until someone pisses me off!

Fish_Hobbiest
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susankatomerit
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Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, Ok

PostPosted: 2011.02.21(Mon)11:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to state anything about the issure except if you want to leave that is your business. But keeping fish is always a learning experience no matter how long you have been keeping them. I've been keeping fish for over 30 years and I still learn new things. You have to be open to learn no matter how long you have been at this.

Everyone will have their own opinions, you also can't take just what a book says or another site as being the only way to do it. New things come and change things constantly and you just chalk it up as to WOW I just learned something new.

As for stressing fish, it may not only be tank sizes that the person is talking about but may also be the combination of the chosen fish that the tank size would cause the stress and it is best to tell the op about it before hand as to let them come back later crying about what went wrong.

On this forum you have to be open minded to what everyone says not just you are right and they are wrong for bringing something else into the conversation. If you can't be opened minded this may not be the forum for you.
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Flame Angel
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: 2011.02.21(Mon)17:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And the only thing one person would talk about is "Fish Stress" well I know what fish stress is. He linked me something and I found a better article.


Sorry, but what makes the article you posted 'better'? It seems a more general article about stress, whereas the other one goes into the detail and science of why overstocking/stunting causes stress and how it affects the health of the fish.

Quote:
The guy didn't want to kow about all the stress in the tank, he wanted a simple "Yes or No" answer to his question.


The article that you posted states that inadequate tank size and overstocking of tank are main causes of stress. So it seems fair that stress was taken into account when someone asks for advice on how many fish they can fit in a particular tank.

Quote:
I felt as if it was a direct attack on myself. I have been raising fish for a very long time. I know what can be put into what tank, and I know what shouldn't be.


Some of the people who posted in that other thread have had just as much experience as you, some more, in keeping fish. What makes you right and them wrong? and vice versa? Everyone was just offering their educated opinion (including yourself of course). So should the others who posted take it as a personal attack that you do not agree with what they said?


Quote:
I have 3 books. I have one for my 75 gallon fish/reef tank, I have 1 for my 29 gallon freshwater tank and I have one for my 3 gallon nano tank. And everyone of them has the chemicals from every other day in it. It has the information off the internet for each type of fish that I have, and on top of that it even has different types of diseases fish can get and how to cure them.


I admire your dedication and consistency, I really do. However like someone said - no hobbiest test kits can measure the concentration of the correct chemicals which indicate stress, for example cortisol, which your article mentions a couple of times :
Quote:
Stress is accompanied by the release of the hormone cortisol, which is responsible for many of the negative health effects associated with stress.


Quote:
I even went as far as doing the math for the guy to show him how many inches of fish he would have (at full grown) and how much it would take to completly fill that 100 gallon tank.


If the fish in question were something like tetras then I would agree with you, however 57 inches of tetra is a lot less biomass than 57 inches of large, messy cichlids.

Quote:
I'm sure everyone thinks I'm some dude, but I'm not, I'm a female


Why does what sex you are matter?

Quote:
And well, I guess maybe I took it a little different, but I truely did feel it was a direct attack on myself.


I'm not trying to be a smart-@$%* here, but what made you feel as if it was a direct attack on yourself?
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Topper
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Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: 2011.02.21(Mon)18:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry you feel the way that you do. I agree with Flame Angel in that you have admirable dedication and consistency. However, I have followed the thread in question and must agree that the advice you gave was pretty risky and a bit contradictory to some other statements.

This hobby is FULL of poor information and shoddy recommendations - from the fish stores to outdated books to information websites to forums. The good folks here are different. The advice given is primarily based in years (decades) of experience. My personal experience could be considered extensive (100+ species kept, breeding difficult species for profit, commercial/residential tank maintenance, fish store manager, etc.). Yet almost every time I log on to AoA I learn something new. Sometimes it is something I thought I knew and was wrong - other times it is a topic I have no experience with. The point is exactly what susankatomerit said... have an open mind and realize that it is not a personal attack.
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Fish_Hobbiest
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Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Location: Viola, Arkansas

PostPosted: 2011.02.22(Tue)9:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

well since I can't figure out how to leave this bored, would an admin please just kick my @$$ off it please!
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deborah_claro
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Joined: 11 May 2006
Location: Virginia, USA

PostPosted: 2011.02.22(Tue)9:54    Post subject: Just leave, already! Reply with quote

I don't think Administrators like to delete accounts, because they rarely do it. Instead, if you want to leave the site, simply leave and don't post again. Eventually, whatever you have posted already will sink into oblivion. It will become old news and no one will see it again, except accidentally. That's the way to do it.
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Huntress
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Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: 2011.02.22(Tue)13:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the above. If you really are leaving, just do so and don't log in again. There is no point to say you are leaving and then to keep on posting. I'm locking this thread because it's beating a dead horse.
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