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pH lowering
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2010.02.10(Wed)3:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nylons as sold to cover legs work out much cheaper as media bags.

I now only use RO water to dilute tapwater down to where it needs to be. Adding more stuff to the tank often just confuses test kits but doesn't improve conditions for the fish.
You can lower pH by tipping in Pepsi - your fish would die but the readings would be great, See what I mean?


Last edited by diademhill on 2010.02.11(Thu)3:07; edited 1 time in total
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RRay
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010

PostPosted: 2010.02.10(Wed)17:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your source of water too hard for your fish or is something in the tank making the water harder, if this is the case you need to find the reason the pH is increasing. Otherwise leaving the pH on the high side might not be a problem as long as it isn't far above 7. Most captive breed fish will happily live in slightly hard water even Discus. But if you are keeping wild caught fish, using any of the suggestions given already will do it. Each water change after will need the water pH changed to match the tank. Unless there is a big problem my advise is to leave the chemistry alone.
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eric2008
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Macon,Ga

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)12:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkblade48 wrote:
snausage wrote:
If you aren't squeamish about adding chemicals, I've had great success with API's pH down.

This is definitely not the way to go about lowering pH. Playing with water chemistry by adding phosphate buffers is never a good idea.

More often than not, aspiring hobbyists kill many fish by having the pH fluctuate up and down due to the addition of such chemicals.


And the basis of this statement is what?opinion or quantitative fact?
I use Seachem Neutral regulator often and I can't remember the last fatality in my tank.I also supply stock (SA cichlids) for several local fish stores.
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rales12
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Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)12:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

eric2008, there is no need to bring these topics back to the top when they've been dead for more than a week, especially those that have been dead for two months.

Also, many of the people here who have recommended NOT using pH downers have been keeping fish for a very long time and know what they're talking about. The general agreement here is that these chemicals make your tank water unstable and that you do more harm than good by having constantly fluctuating pH levels. By bringing up dead topics and insisting that others should be using these chemicals, you are just going to become irritating and frustrating.

Like I said the other day, in a different thread, you're time would be put to better use by replying to RECENT topics that are in need of a reply. Replying to dead topics that don't need a product pushed on them is unnecessary.
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eric2008
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Macon,Ga

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)17:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

rales12 wrote:
eric2008, there is no need to bring these topics back to the top when they've been dead for more than a week, especially those that have been dead for two months.

Also, many of the people here who have recommended NOT using pH downers have been keeping fish for a very long time and know what they're talking about. The general agreement here is that these chemicals make your tank water unstable and that you do more harm than good by having constantly fluctuating pH levels. By bringing up dead topics and insisting that others should be using these chemicals, you are just going to become irritating and frustrating.

Like I said the other day, in a different thread, you're time would be put to better use by replying to RECENT topics that are in need of a reply. Replying to dead topics that don't need a product pushed on them is unnecessary.


I have been keeping fish for a loooooong time and have had no trouble keeping stable pH levels with Neutral regulator and always had trouble maintaining pH with both peat and driftwood. You know why? because they are not measurable and any person that says they are is lying.I'm not the one who has trouble with pH.I thought someone would benefit from experience.I'm sorry if you have trouble with facts.Just out of curiosity how many teaspoons of driftwood does it take to lower your pH .5?
Just so you know they said that liquid pH lowering chems are unstabile,Seachem's Neutral regulator is a powder and easily measured.If you leach all the tannins out of your driftwood you will reduce it's effectiveness in lowering pH making it even more difficult to measure it's effectiveness in lowering pH.
It has been 10 years since I last had a pH reading that varied more than .1 on my pH meter.I put my product that you feel I am pushing on people in my water before it goes into my tanks it removes the unwanted chemicals and keeps my pH @ exactly 7 before it goes into the tank.My Discus and other SA Cichlids and Tetras prefer that level and it helps to keep them happy and healthy.
If I always add water with a pH level of 7 and do regular and often changes with water of the same reading I should never have a problem with fish swimming in water of the wrong pH level.API has a powdered product that works well also.

I have been keeping fish for over 30 years and I would disagree with anyone who states that driftwood or peat are better methods of maintaining or lowering pH.Also I have never read any published article or book that states that peat or driftwood are better than powdered products.Actually I have read and spoken with many professional fishkeepers than avoid peat and driftwood for the very same reasons I gave you.
If I am irritating or frustrating you,I would say that you have a very low tolerance level or possibly you might be frustrated with the problems you are having with your tank.I would think that responsible fishkeeping would dictate that we try to learn the very best way to keep our fish alive.

I have not been on this forum for very long but I have kept fish for longer than many of the members have been alive.I would stack my experience up with most any person who posts on this forum.How many of the members here supply local fish stores in their area with most of their South American Cichlids.How many on this forum have actually been on a trip to find new stock in the wild?

I am sorry that you have had trouble with your tank,but that doesn't give you the right to try to censor what I feel might help another hobbyist.When it comes to the health of peoples fish I really don't have the time for your pettines.
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)17:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric - you hit the nail on the head when you said you have a pH meter. The only way these chemicals can be used safely is how you are doing it with premixed stable solutions and metering all the time. The typical fish keeper relying on test kits cannot do this and the pH will yoyo to the detriment of the fish.

I don't advocate adding wood either.

I'm surprised at you though as it is much easier to use RO water than adding acid.
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eric2008
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Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Location: Macon,Ga

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)18:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

diademhill wrote:
Eric - you hit the nail on the head when you said you have a pH meter. The only way these chemicals can be used safely is how you are doing it with premixed stable solutions and metering all the time. The typical fish keeper relying on test kits cannot do this and the pH will yoyo to the detriment of the fish.

I don't advocate adding wood either.

I'm surprised at you though as it is much easier to use RO water than adding acid.


I have just always done it this way and once I find a method that works I tend to stick with it.
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unissuh
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: 2010.04.20(Tue)19:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peat and driftwood are unreliable and very hard to measure, I think we're all agreed on that.

Phosphate buffers do work to adjust pH in some circumstances, but the do have a couple of drawbacks:
In non-planted tanks, high phosphates will cause algae - this buffer certainly isn't excluded.
In planted tanks, it will screw up CO2 test kits & makes people overestimate their CO2 levels. Plants will absorb the phosphate as a nutrient so then the situation becomes unpredictable; of course this depends on how much uptake an individual tank has. One should really focus on KH readings in planted tanks IMO - once these are spot on the pH will fix itself. Thus, I think Darkblade48 was quite right in recommending not to do this since Arturo's tank apparently semi-planted...

The only way I mess with pH is to dilute with distilled or RO. That is just as quantifiable as a phosphate buffer and the pH stays at what you make it, no caveats, full stop.

With all of that said I think looking at pH is overemphasized, people should worry more about total dissolved solids/water hardness. These are the parameters that will actually affect salt/fluid regulation in fish.

How many people add CO2 to the new water they put into CO2 injected planted tanks to match the pH? How many people turn off their CO2 diffusers etc at night? These would cause some pretty major pH swings, probably a whole pH point or more for some and I certainly don't see complaints about this being an issue...

Compare that to "dumping" a fish from hard water to soft, ever tried that? *Not* a good idea.

PS: Also have to comment that continuing a thread isn't always bad, for every person who gets an answer to their problem I'll bet there are >10 "lurkers" who have the same issue, read the advice but never post.
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pioniere
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011

PostPosted: 2011.02.17(Thu)17:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad I found this thread. I've been dealing with a high pH and have been looking at different ways to combat it. I saw some Fluval Peat pellet filter media in the store the other day and wondered if it might be suitable to bring down the pH. My main concern is that it will discolor my otherwise crystal-clear water. Does anyone have experience with using this media? Did it help lower pH, and did it discolor water?

Also, would it be possible to combine the peat pellets with activated charcoal that I use now?

I have a Penguin biowheel filter with the filter baskets, so I'm thinking I should be able to use those to hold both types of media..
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diademhill
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007

PostPosted: 2011.02.18(Fri)2:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pioniere,

What are your tank's parameters, decor & fish?

I don't like using peat in a tank but sometimes use it to prepare water for the next change if growing on fry.
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