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Behind the Curtains of Responsible Fish-Keeping
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)5:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

About iridovirus in commercially bred Gouramis;
http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/5/2/250.pdf

Quote:
Because farm-raised ornamental fish, including Gouramis, are maintained using intense culture practises resulting in crowding and stress, the presence of carriers in tank populations could perpetuate high death rates in affected commercial operations. Furthermore, because some strains of iridovirus may cause severe disease in multiple fish species, the possibility exists that carrier fish could infect other species after arrival in pet stores and hobbysts' aquaria.


All this exists because of this hobby of ours. We (responsible fish-keepers) should ask our selves, is this acceptable or NOT.

I believe it is time to start making a list of the most affected species in this trade/hobby and start advising folk not to buy them.
There are plenty of other species out there that aren't effected, at least not that much, like Rainbows, some Barbs, Danios, and more.

I will do a research which I will document, showing which species show no Dead on Arrival (DOA) and no Dead After Arrival (DAA). Fish that tolerate transport and aquarium conditions well.
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)5:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Fish Go Travelling - this info is very interesting;

http://www.guianashield.org/documents/AQUARIUM%20FISH%20REPORT%20FINAL.doc

Quote:
High mortality rates of fish until arrival:
Bad health condition of fish arriving from South America and mortality during transport was mentioned as a problem by all the importers who CO2-operated with this research (see acknowledgement). This seems to be a common problem of the trade in wild caught fish, rather than a specific problem of the trade from South America. High mortality rates until arrival may be due to poor skills of collectors, intermediaries and exporters in the handling, storing, packing and / or transporting of fish, which causes excessive stress and makes fish susceptible to disease. Inadequate and incorrect use of medicines also lead to high mortality rates.
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: 2008.01.01(Tue)6:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Reefkeeping online mag.;

Quote:
Roger shows us the logbook required by MAC; the binder was over two inches thick and every document was in English (Figure 2 below). I ask Roger, "How many of the collectors speak English?" "Very few," he responds. (Even Roger is not exactly what I would call perfectly fluent in English;- there were instances where we had trouble communicating. I was lucky that Marelet is still somewhat fluent in Tagalog and we could work things out.) I learn that, for the most part, the collectors do not really understand what they are filling out in the MAC logbook. This is not difficult to understand when you realize that the collectors' education level is between the 2nd and 4th grade.

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Josh Hansen
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Dayboro, Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: 2008.02.10(Sun)6:39    Post subject: Fish Keeping Reply with quote

I am wondering if anyone agrees on the transporting of the fish can be better managed. For example people who move and cart boxes of live fish around through airports and other couriers will pick up boxes pf live fish where they are thrown around on. These people are generally non fish keepers and will be under pressure to move the boxes quickly without the concern of the package.

Another problem the fish are generally starved by the wholesaler to reduce the cost of the food and waste build up in the plastic bags. There are no way to control the water temperature in the plastic bags.

No wonder the fish become sick or disease during transport.
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nikelodeon79
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.

PostPosted: 2008.02.10(Sun)11:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in my LFS the day they got a shipment in. I heard them mention to someone that the fish they ordered had all died. They said, "Yeah, the boxes got really cold and almost all the fish died this time." So sad...
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: 2008.02.10(Sun)12:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are no way to control the water temperature in the plastic bags.


IME, I have no problems with receiving cold shipments. They use hot sand bags. They microwave the bags before they put the fish into the box.
Each time I open the transport box the sand bags are still warm.

It is the long transport time + fish density that is harming the fish (ammonia, lack of O2).

Also, it is not strange to get deformed fish. Fish that wasn't fed properly as fry, my assumption.

Regards, Dusko.
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mandle
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Location: canada, eh

PostPosted: 2008.03.02(Sun)5:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

They really should have some sort of laws regulating the sale of fish...way back when I bought my first 20 gallon, I murdered so many fish because I had absolutely no idea what I was doing (no internet back in those days!) Bala sharks, ID sharks, and assorted other fish bought with the tank - not even set up yet! 100% losses over and over...at least I learned eventually - the hard way unfortunately...and when I finally accumulated some knowledge and bought my baby silver arrowana and baby red tailed cat fish the morons at the 2 LFS (bought separately) asked me nothing (tank size, tankmates, how long it has been set up, absolutely nothing!) which really is quite terrifying! The rtc would not last long in a "fish haver's" nice new 10 gallon, and that "cute" arrowana would love a tasty guppy snack if possible! Rolling Eyes With me they did 10 gallon, 20 gallon, 110 gallon and I sadly sold the tank before I could upgrade.
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badisbadis101
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Location: Houston, Texas

PostPosted: 2008.03.03(Mon)17:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is very true!

About shops getting local fish - I agree 100%. There is one store near me that sells almost only locally bred fish. All of the fish I buy from that store are disease free, eat immediatly, and look better (and cost less!). The only disadvantage is that he has quite a limited selection, simply because there is not a local supply of many species. As to why these fish cost less, and most locally bred fish don't I do not know, but I am happy that they do Smile

BTW - if anyone lives in the Houston Area, the store I am talking about is BB Fish and Pet. It is located on FM 1960

EDIT; Kindly EDITed by Mod Dus
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Dusko
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Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: 2008.03.04(Tue)12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They really should have some sort of laws regulating the sale of fish...way back when I bought my first 20 gallon, I murdered so many fish because I had absolutely no idea what I was doing


The only way we could save the fish is to stop selling to folk that doesn't have a clue what nitrogen cycle, fish compatibility and fish requirement is!!

And how to do that?

Law should state that anyone who wants to purchase an aquarium fish specie, have to show the "Responsible fish-keeper" Certificate, purchased by a local Aquarium Club.
Also, the Aquarium Club folk that has certified the new fish-keeper have the right by law to visit the fish-keeper and check onto his/her aquarium/fish.
Trust me this would work Wink

badisbadis101, that is great news, but since they don't have any info on their web page stating that they are selling locally bred fish species, I will remove that link, thanks.
Also, they sell salt water fish and some of them aren't so easy to bred locally. Most of them are probably wild caught Wink

Quote:
The only disadvantage is that he has quite a limited selection, simply because there is not a local supply of many species.

That shouldn't be a problem. Do we really need all the species of the world, if that is going to hurt them?? No we don't Smile

Kind regards, Dusko.
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Josh Hansen
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Dayboro, Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: 2008.03.13(Thu)5:31    Post subject: Fish Keeping Reply with quote

There are many areas of retail trade including aquarium or pet shops where money or profit making are their major concern over the needs of the aquarist. The examples include land plants sold as aquatic plants, chemical not working and wrong fish types for the aquarist tank situations.

This is also happens to other animals in the retail trade. For example wrong dog breed (e.g cattle or other working dog breed) sold to customer in a small back yard. The dog become bored and excessive barking develops. If sold a more better dog breed the less likely the negative behaviour happens.

I now own three pigs, four goats, two dogs , three horses and two fish tanks on large acreage. I has learn very quickly before you buy an animal on researching animal type, breed and animal behaviour suited to your lifestyle.This is a major reason why you need to do your own research before you buy any animals.
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