Aquarium & Tropical Fish Site
Tropical Fish Forums
Aquarium fishkeeping around the world!
 
ChatChat  HelpHelp   Search BoardSearch Board   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   Check your private messagesCheck your private messages   Log inLog in   RegisterRegister 
Wet Dry Filters on Salt Water Tanks
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 Forum Index > Marine Equipment and Chemistry  Reply to topic   Post new topic
Author Message
Oscer
Exemplars


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2006.09.13(Wed)11:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO the only reason that you would have to export nutrients (or any thing for that matter) is due to breaking the natural chain of events.

Something that I have lately noticed is (for lack of better word) Old Tank Syndrome. It is caused by disrupting the natural flow of things. As I have already stated, anything that is put in to a setup needs to be exported (unless noting is added and thus nothing needs to be removed). By "anything" I mean anything from light to additives and food.

Now, many of the things we add are aimed to imitate nature (which it dose), for example light. Light is found in nature in a very similar form to that which we add to are tanks, but the problem comes in when the natural cycle cannot occur. Then things like light an additives come in to play, ex. If light is given along with additives, so as to replicate the sea, corals will grow (in theory). But unlike in the sea there are no fish that eat the corals (first step that can't be followed as it is in nature) and it's in a tank, a glass box with limited space, in nature there is a very small limit to space that can be inhabited (second step that can't be followed as it is in nature). So due to a few slight differences the system dose not function correctly.

Now no avid aquarist is going to cut down his corals but he can neither afford a bigger tank and so Old Tank Syndrome prevails. So Old Tank Syndrome is the same as New Tank Syndrome just in different/opposite form.

This I compare in the same light as nutrient build up, which only occurs faster, and so as resourceful as mankind is we built equipment that takes the roll of something else in the natural cycle. But by doing this we have caused something else in the natural cycle to fail, due to the fact that we have intervened and will need to intervene once more. (That
_________________
Years of fish keeping = Good advice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Psyfalcon
Advisors


Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: 2006.09.14(Thu)13:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our systems can not replicate nature due to one very important factor: our aquariums are much too small. In nature, any waste is spread about, eventually across the whole ocean. We need to take some steps to ensure we don't poison our aqua- friends, the fish and the coral (we can poison aptasia though.. aqua - enemy and all)


If we attempted even to model a reef, and ignore the surrounding oceans, we would have a lot of coral, more algae than coral and very few fish. In Hawaii, I generally saw a few dozen fish in over 100 yards worth of reef. While there are more "alive" parts of the reef, the scale remains the same. So even in a relatively larged size 75 gallon tank, we would be limited to a clown or two and attempt to not feed the fish, exept from the tank.

Since our overriding goal is is to prevent our water from becoming poisonous, we would not want a fish eating a coral, as in nature, because that coral is just like any other piece of food. Once used by the fish, any remaining waste.. will be sent back into the water column.


So, in conclusion to that rambling point, a truely natural method won't work. We need to supplument waste removal by either removing organics and solids by using equipment like skimmers, and gravel vacs or removing broken down organics like nitrate through water change, or N2 conversion.

The debate isnt that we need to limit what we add, and maximize export, but the best way to do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oscer
Exemplars


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2006.09.27(Wed)7:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with you Psyfalcon.

A truly natural method will work and it dose, the ocean is an example. But as you and I have said the problem comes in where you try to replicate nature in the aquarium, if it's in a glass box it's not nature any more....thus man has rather harnessed processes/events nature.
_________________
Years of fish keeping = Good advice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Fishboy86
Members


Joined: 14 Feb 2006

PostPosted: 2006.09.27(Wed)22:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I still don't get it I'm alittle bit lost Confused
I just bought a wet dry a month ago from ebay, I checked at my LFS and asked if I needed bioballs and the guy told me basicly yes because thats the prime method of filtration for my wet dry, but now I read in here that they are bad now what should I do? I checked my nitrates and parameters of my 55 gallon and the nitrates are 30ppm they used to be 60ppm back when I used a fluval with a jebo skimmer but I also aded Chatteualgea to my overflow I just didn't want it to float around in my wet dry and getting sucked up by a pump since its hard and expensive to get and rare to get around here in NJ about $20.00 for 3 or 4 branches now what tipe of export do I have here then besides my Turboflotor 1000 wich I had never seen my jebo skimm something that nasty and stinky before and what should I do to lower even more my nitrates I have crushed coral the set up is one year old should I change the crushed coral to live sand? I have seen lots of orthropods lurking around in my coral thats why I havent change it. but heres a drawing of what my wet dry looks maybe you guys could give me some word of advice

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sirreal63
Advisors


Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Location: Meadowlakes, TX

PostPosted: 2006.09.28(Thu)7:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't have a reef setup the nitrates are not that big of a deal and bio-balls will be fine. If you have a reef with stony corals it becomes an issue. High nitrates and phosphates will limit the calcium uptake and prevent growth. I have a buddy here with a 375 gallon softie tank and his nitrates are over 80 and all of his softies are growing like weeds.

This is an actintic shot of his tank, high nitrates are OK in his situation but they may not be in yours.


_________________
Out on the road today...I saw a DeadHead sticker on a Cadillac...
Jack
110 Gallon DSA Pentagon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger
Fishboy86
Members


Joined: 14 Feb 2006

PostPosted: 2006.09.28(Thu)11:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well right now its not a reef yet but it will be like my 15 gallons right now I'm just waiting for it to mature in December its going to make 1 year right now I have my clean up crew and three fishes in there bicolor angel, tomato clown, and one damsel about six months ago I have a couple of testes corals and did fine even with the high nitrates but I took them out and put them in my 15 g nano reef but I'm just going to wait for it to all settle down but what should I do when I think that its ready? Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FloridaBoy
Moderators


Joined: 04 Jul 2004

PostPosted: 2006.09.28(Thu)23:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishboy86 wrote:
Well right now its not a reef yet but it will be like my 15 gallons right now I'm just waiting for it to mature in December its going to make 1 year right now I have my clean up crew and three fishes in there bicolor angel, tomato clown, and one damsel about six months ago I have a couple of testes corals and did fine even with the high nitrates but I took them out and put them in my 15 g nano reef but I'm just going to wait for it to all settle down but what should I do when I think that its ready? Confused


What the...? did you actually just get all that in one sentence?
I have read that twice and still don't understand your question... Question
Take a deep breath, maybe locate the period and comma on your keyboard and try again?
_________________
Keepin' marines happy for 25 years
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oscer
Exemplars


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: 2006.10.02(Mon)12:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened to the philosophies of fish keeping...!

Any way...I second sirreal's post, but I
_________________
Years of fish keeping = Good advice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
 Forum Index > Marine Equipment and Chemistry All times are GMT - 6 Hours Reply to topic   Post new topic
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Jump to:  
  You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2008 phpBB Group

oF <=> oC in <=> cm G <=> L